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Britiish Hales Patent / No 2 Grenade with concave steel washer

roller63

roller63

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
Has anyone got a Hales Patent / No 2 Grenade that has the concave steel washer attached to the base ? I'm looking for some pictures because I have managed to find one and I would like to see if the washer is correct, ie. diameter and thickness of the metal. I would also like to see how it should be attached, mine is loose. It is threaded for a spring clip too, which is missing, along with the top brass piece. Pictures to follow.
 
Burney Davis said:
Yes, I do have one. I'll dig it out and post some pictures (unless someone beats me to it) but probably not till the weekend.
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That would be great thanks. I'm particularly interested in the dimensions of the washer and how it is fixed to the grenade.
 
I'm looking forward to the this. I've not seen one of these washers before. All the No 2s I've seen had plain bases, some with holes for the clip some without. Is the term 'washer' confusing me?

John
 
Thanks very much Tom (excellent memory). I have to admit I've never seen that on a No 2 before. Not in the official drawings, photos, museums and even where shown in old books like the 'Illustrated War News'. Quite similar to the German M1914 range discs. I wonder if it was a field supplied item, maybe made by the Royal Engineers?

John
 
Sorry for the delay in posting pictures, it has been a busy week! The earlier post shows the no 2 and below there are a few better pictures. The rings and pins are not correct.

S4200176.jpgS4200175.jpgS4200178.jpgS4200174.jpg
 
Darrel - that's fascinating. It looks like the base plug and releasing socket of a No.35 have been mated to the No.2 body. Can you strip the whole grenade down to show the centre tube and needle pellet, and also reveal if there are any retaining bolts held in place by the releasing socket? Thanks.




Tom.
 
It's not complete I'm afraid Tom. It came from a French collection many years ago and I bought it as seen. I'll take a couple more photo's tomorrow.

D
 
Hmm . Interesting looking item . looking forward to seeing Tony's version eventually...........
 
siegfreid said:
Hmm . Interesting looking item . looking forward to seeing Tony's version eventually...........
Click to expand...

Apologies for the delay Gents, I have recently moved and everything is upside down. I have taken time off from the chaos bring the grenade and a couple of others out for comparison.

The grenade in question is marked "The Cotton Powder Co Ltd Hales Patent London 8mm B"
This is now the 4th No 2 grenade I have seen with the disc on it in 35+ years of collecting. A pic in Delhomme's book, a pic on the net, BD's one and mine. All the discs appear to be the same, which leads me to think they are an official item.
My example has been drilled for a spring clip, but it looks like one of the holes has been enlarged, as neither seem to be threaded. There are tool marks on the base piece, as though someone has tried to remove it. The area around the disc is bright which suggests they have been together for a long time. The disc is loose, and I can't see exactly how it would be fitted, unless it was originally a tight push fit.

I have included 2 other No2's as a reference. The Mk2 Drill with original white paint and short handle, has no markings on the body, but is clearly stamped "B A" on the top piece.
The Rifle version next is marked "The Cotton Powder Co Ltd Hales Patent London 7mm "
I hope some of you will find this of interest, comments and suggestions welcome.SAM_0004.JPGSAM_0012.JPGSAM_0011.JPGSAM_0010.JPGSAM_0009.JPGSAM_0008.JPGSAM_0007.JPGSAM_0006.JPGSAM_0005.JPGSAM_0013.JPG
I
 
So does the washer / cup just push on?

Funny, I'd never spotted that in Delhomme before.

John
 
Tony . Thanks for taking the time to take those pictures . As I suspected , your one is totally different to the one DJ posted apart from the "washer" . Also strange is the 7mm marked one you have pictured as these would normally not have a muzzle clamp . The 8mm marked one you have with the washer would appear to have been modified as you can clearly see signs of filing on the end of the base piece where the rod screwed in & the 8mm marked ones would normally have a muzzle clamp . Very mysterious but as with most of the early British numbered series grenades , there is an almost infinite variety of versions & it's never safe to state categorically that this or that never happened ! I hope that one day you might find out more about your one . Mike .
 
The two grenades from posts #10 and #14 both have in common the fact that the back ends have been hacked and modified. As Mike points out Tony's No.2 shows file marks, while Darrel's has the base and releasing collar of a No.35.

In the latter case why have parts from a 1917-18 No.35 on an obsolete No.2? Two safety pins would make no sense and assuming the bottom of the grenade has been drilled through to take an unmodified No.35 needle pellet (held in place by retaining bolts), then the top pin would not go through anyway. That several grenades are known to exist with the disc, but with different bases (including the example on p18 of Delhomme's "English Grenades of the Great War"), might indicate a number of grenades modified for trials of some performance aspect of the disc; since the two grenades under discussion are both marked for the 8mm Lebel, maybe the French Army was experimenting...




Tom.
 
Thanks for the comments Gents. I think there is a French connection to this, BD's grenade came from France, as did mine. Delhomme is French and the pic I saw online was from a French collection.
 
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