Centre cast no5 mills grenade

[ftobert]

Hello guys I was wondering if i could ask for some opinions on this centre cast mills. I brought it today, and I have either been very lucky and got a mint centre cast mills or a very good repro and need some opinions. I have had the centre tube out and is definatly original as is the lever pin and base plug just wanting to know about the body. The inside is quite rusty and there is no evidence of the centre tube being out for many years. Look forward to hearing what you guys think.

 

[siegfreid]

Looks good to me . I don't think I've ever seen a repro centre cast [that's not to say they don't exist!] & the repros are normally quite crude . Your one is a very good looking example . Well done.

 

[butterfly]

You say you have had the centre tube out -do you happen to have any photos of the inside with the centre tube removed and photos of the centre tube itself.

I'm no expert in Mills so will leave it to others to comment on it, but I noticed a minor point. I think the early Mills had a small ring pull rather than the large one on yours? - again maybe a Mills collector can validate this.

I hope you got yourself a good buy.

regards Kev

 

[siegfreid]

Kev.
They used all sorts of rings on the early Mills so that's not really a guide . Mike.

 

[Millsman]

I always think the key test for a centrecast is that the horizontal grooves around the body never seem to be identical in width or depth. When these were put in on a lathe, there always seems to be variations.

If they are all exactly the same I'd be suspicious.

John

 

[butterfly]

Cheers Mike, and of course rings can get replaced in any case.

regards Kev

 

[millsbomber]

The filler screw does look completely right but why would sealer be used if it has never been filled and if it had been filled why no markings, its great looking and condition, the cut groves look a little clean, the recently made ones i have seen have been really poorly machined but i hope there not getting better, for me to say 100% i would have to look at it in my hand,,,,,, Dave

 

[millsbomber]

Here is one of my ones that i have tried to get as close to the body shape of yours, the grooves should be as old as the rest,,,,,,,, Dave

View attachment 85213 View attachment 85214 View attachment 85215

 

[ftobert]

Thanks for all the response so far the turned grooves are all different depths and sizes but appear to have been cleaned with a brass wire brush or similar. The casting meets up perfectly. Hope this helps and the pics shed some light on it. Cheers rob

 

[ftobert]

I will have to bring it to detling in March so you can see it Dave and see what you think. Your attachments won't open by the way cheers rob

 

[siegfreid]

Still looks good to me but Millsbomber is right about the fact it's very difficult to be 100% sure without seeing an item in the flesh . Also , it's got the wrong striker pin , that's a No23 one .

 

[ftobert]

I thought the striker was wrong for the no5. should the no 5 be pretty much the same but without the slot in it ? Cheers rob

 

[siegfreid]

Yes but to be fair I'm being a bit pedantic . Some 5's have been found with slotted strikers but it's not common.

 

[Millsman]

The striker is wrong. It should be un-slotted. On close look at the photos I think this may be a repro body fitted with a real lever, spring and striker. It looks too good to be true and the grooves look too even for me.

However I'm also not sure about the baseplug. The broad arrow looks wrong. I have couple of these plugs and they don't have a broad arrow. Also the lines between the lettering is different from mine and the one on Dave's website. So the plug may be repro as well.

John

 

[ftobert]

Ok could I take some more photos of it that you might need to see to identify if it is real or rero cos I am quite hoping I can add it to my collection as my most prizes grenade rarther than just strip the parts and put it in a box under my bed. I really want to be sure either way tho. To hold in the hand and look at to me it just feels right but this is my first encounter with centre cast mills grenades so if there is any photos as I said that would help you guys just let me know cheers rob

 

[Millsman]

Here's a photo of my cutaway, and one recovered from the Battlefield at Loos. John

 

[ftobert]

They are really nice especially the dug one because it has provinence and character. After examining your cut away I am almost convinced the body is original now I have been looking through many photos and there is nothing make me doubt it's original. As regards the base I am not sure as I have seen similar bases of that style with the broard arrow like that but the base seems pretty rough cast compared to others. I can not see why anyone would go to the effort of reproducing that plug as it's complicated one to reproduce and looks very good to be a repro so could it just be a variation ? I would like to bring this to one of the shows for some of you to appraise Dave, mike, john and anyone else involved in this thread that would be good enough to have a look for me. Cheers rob

 

[Millsman]

Hi Rob.

There are various qualities of repro plugs around. From plain to complex. Here's a photo of some that appeared in Northern France a few years ago. Yes they look a bit fake but you would be surprised how many I have seen that have been aged and are now with grenades being sold as all original.

John

 

[millsbomber]

Here are 2 more repro ones,,,,,,, Dave

 

[millsbomber]

I see your concerned with the base plug also Rob, here are my 2 examples, small crows foot on the left one and the other has no crows foot,,,,,,, Dave