Hi all. I just remembered this shell case that I have had for some time and was wondering if anyone can give me any information about it. Judging by the markings it was clearly made for export, but in what time period and to whom? Any comments would be greatly appreciated. Cheers.
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French 47mm Case, Marked: Hotchkiss, Paris, Made in France
- Thread starter Spitace41
- Start date
H
Hoeksel
Guest
Based on the headstamp this is an early (before 1900) French made case for the Hotchkiss 2,5 pounder as used by France, Japan, UK, Austria-Hungary and USA. The case should be 131 mm long. I am not sure for what country the case is made, but my guess would be USA. This based on that the UK made rtheir own cases, Japan used Japanese and UK export while I am not sure about Austria-Hungary but I know they made their own cases as well. Or maybe simply French use? I have not seen many of these early head stamps like your case, very nice.
Tony Williams
Well-Known Member
A follow-up question, if I may. I have a couple of these rounds but have never paid much attention to them (somewhat early to catch my interest!), and I would appreciate clarification on a couple of points:
As far as I can make out, the first 47 x 131R cases were French, designated Mle 1884 and were made of coiled brass with an iron base.
These were followed by similar 47 x 131R ammo with a drawn brass case, widely used (esp by Japan).
There is also in Hawkinson a 47 x 139R round (with the same 60mm rim) identified as being for the canon revolver (5-barrel Hotchkiss).
Can anyone confirm or correct the above, and tell me:
1. Were the 47 x 139R rounds fired in the same guns as the 47 x 131R?
2. Was the Mle 1884 a rotary or single-barrel gun?
3. What were the designations of other (presumably single-barrel) guns using either 47 x 131R or 47 x 139R ammo, who used them and for what?
Thanks for any help!
As far as I can make out, the first 47 x 131R cases were French, designated Mle 1884 and were made of coiled brass with an iron base.
These were followed by similar 47 x 131R ammo with a drawn brass case, widely used (esp by Japan).
There is also in Hawkinson a 47 x 139R round (with the same 60mm rim) identified as being for the canon revolver (5-barrel Hotchkiss).
Can anyone confirm or correct the above, and tell me:
1. Were the 47 x 139R rounds fired in the same guns as the 47 x 131R?
2. Was the Mle 1884 a rotary or single-barrel gun?
3. What were the designations of other (presumably single-barrel) guns using either 47 x 131R or 47 x 139R ammo, who used them and for what?
Thanks for any help!
H
Hoeksel
Guest
The 47x139R60 I know as a French 47 mm Model 1934, and as WW1 dated French 47 mm marked 47.R.
Tony Williams
Well-Known Member
Thanks for that.
Does anyone know any more about these rounds and their guns?
Does anyone know any more about these rounds and their guns?
This should sort it out. The ww1 cases were used in aircraft mounted cannon with the D shell projectiles but
were identical to the Hotchkiss made case in size. From a year 1900 publication, but the same cannon
would be available at earlier dates, these are just the latest version. The French Navy model year (of adoption) might not be the same as the Hotchkiss Co. model year for any given version. The usual "New Model" upgrades would be some kind of recoil buffer and semi-automatic breech adaptations plus longer barrel options just to keep up with the competition. To clarify the 47mm L40 is what we refer to as a
3pr. In case the information on one of the plates causes confusion.
were identical to the Hotchkiss made case in size. From a year 1900 publication, but the same cannon
would be available at earlier dates, these are just the latest version. The French Navy model year (of adoption) might not be the same as the Hotchkiss Co. model year for any given version. The usual "New Model" upgrades would be some kind of recoil buffer and semi-automatic breech adaptations plus longer barrel options just to keep up with the competition. To clarify the 47mm L40 is what we refer to as a
3pr. In case the information on one of the plates causes confusion.
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Tony Williams
Well-Known Member
Many thanks Gordon, that's great!