German 7.7cm Schrapnell 96 ??

[silent knight]

Hello Pascal,

Mine has exactly the same dimensions.

Cheers.

Thank you Sebastien,

that's what I thought so I anticipated your response and here is the result

 

[MINENAZ16]

Nice Pascal ("comme d'habitude")

Cheers

 

[Alpini]

@Alpini: it seems there are two versions of the K. Gr. 16

yes, the version with copper + zinc driving band was without grooves like the shrapnel in this thread. The version with normal copper band I only know with grooves. Copper + Zinc bands on a shell with grooves also don't really make any sense.

The ammunition manual for the F.K. 96 n/A states "It is forbidden to fire separate ammunition from the F.K.16". This manual from 1918 shows not one shell with copper + zinc combination because it is not possible to have cartriges with two driving bands (they won't fit into the chamber).

The F.K.16 manual of 1918 states instead: "The K.Gr.16 for the F.K.16 exsits only with copper+zinc combination". And also most other common shells of the F.K.16 had copper + zinc combination (Exceptions: C-Gesch., K.Gr.15 m.P. and the star shell).

In my own conclusion I don't think the shrapnel which is discussed in this thread is for the old F.K. 96, I think it is for the F.K.16 like @ulaire said I just wonder if his name "F.Schr.16" is the right one. The F.K.96 was very obsolete since 1908 and very obsolete at the beginning of 1st WW and could have been used only very rarely on the western front (cases for the F.K.96 are very rare even in France / Belgium I think? Anyone knows pictures of the 96 ore other traces on Western Front?). The copper + zinc band combination came late in war when the F.K.96's finally got out of service. And because this combination could not be used with cartridge ammunition they saved the work to machine the grooves. This also solves the question with the ammunition logistics.

 

[Alpini]

Hi
The primary 7.7cm C 96 gun used a separate loading I thing with short case and be modified after with the light long case for 7.7cm 96n/A....and you explain the story after about guns and cases

Yes the 96 used short cases. But when they converted barrels they also changed the whole 96 gun to a 96 n/A gun (with recoil buffer and shield). The old 96 guns did never see cartridge ammunition with long cases. The old short 96 cases were also modified (extended) to 77x230R in 1908 for the new 96 n/A guns. That why they show up on western front. The reason for all the changes: The French Mle.1897

 

[silent knight]

Thank you Alpini for these enlightenments.
Regarding MINENAZ16 shell, I also think it is for the F.K. 16