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help with more .303

P

peashooter

BOCN Supporter
I need a bit of help with some more .303, I have a round with the headstamp A .PX -4 .24 BA it looks like a GMCS bullet and is magnetic. My question is could this be a armour piercing round as the bullet is magneting but not at the tip and I remember reading in one of the threads on here that AP GM bullets are not as magnetic at the tip and also I dont know what BA stands for in the headstamp

I think APX is - Atelier de Construction de Puteaux, France.

4 .24 could that be April 1924.

cheers

Richard.
 
French .303

Yes, that is a French Air Service AP round. France continued to use .303 inch Vickers and Lewis guns for her aircraft for a number of years after WWI.

The date is 1924 as you say and Puteaux is the manufacturer. BA is the metal supplier, Parc d'Artillerie de Corse de Bastia.

As a matter of interest, you will find a number of WWI loads such as tracer, AP and incendiary loaded into US made cases by France. A lot of US made ball ammunition was broken down in the UK as it was considered unserviceable and the cases supplied to France for reloading.

Regards
TonyE
 
Richard,
You're right about the manufacturer being Atelier de Construction de Puteaux but it was actually made in the fourth quarter of 1924 and not in April.
'BA' are the initials of the metal supplier but who BA is I have no idea.
Your bullet type is a bit tricky; I've got several French .303's but I don't have one which is specifically armour piercing however I have got an 'armour piercing tracer'.
French .303 types were identified by primer & casemouth seal colours so it would be a big help if you could detail any seal colouring on your round. For info my armour piercing tracer round has no primer seal and a red casemouth seal.
 
French AP

The French .303 AP is usually identified by a blackened bullet, just as on the 8mm Lebel. The British copy of the French WWI AP was the Mark VIIF made by Kings Norton and that too had a blackened bullet.

Regards
TonyE
 
BA

I was quotiong from the French code list published in the ECRA bulletin of July 1968, so if that was wrong I apologise. It was written by a Frenchman though!!

I will note the correction.

As a matter of interest, do you have a complete list of French codes that you could publish?

Regards
TonyE
 
Yes is has a dark case mouth seal not a lot left but it is most likley black but no primer seal colour at all, what colours are there or is it just black & Red ?

thanks
Richard.
 
Last edited:
Richard, I tried to post some photos to answer your question about colour variations but the site tells me there's a limit of four pictures per post so I've given up on that idea.

The rounds I have are as follows;

Ball, GM bullet, purple p.a.
Ball, CN bullet, black cms, no p.a.
Armour Piercing Tracer, GM bullet, bright red cms, no p.a.
Incendiary Tracer, CN bullet, black cms, red p.a.
Incendiary, CN bullet, magenta cms, red p.a.

You don't mention whether your round has a blackened bullet or have I missed that?

Jim
 
It has a magnetic GM bullet the bullet is dark but I think it is just age not darkened, there are some remnants of colour round the neck seal now I look at it in the daylight it looks like its red would I be able to tell anything more by pulling the bullet and weighing it or any visible signs of bullet type.

you could email me the photo's just send me a pm and I will give you my email

many thanks
Richard.
 
Obviously the headstamp is different but my guess is that you've got one of these, an Armour Piercing Tracer.

France3-1.jpg
 
TonyE said:

I was quotiong from the French code list published in the ECRA bulletin of July 1968, so if that was wrong I apologise. It was written by a Frenchman though!!

I will note the correction.

As a matter of interest, do you have a complete list of French codes that you could publish?
Regards
TonyE​
Click to expand...


Don't apologise Tony, even for Frenchman is difficult to understand all the codes.

Here is a list relatively complete from the site of my friend JF on 8lebel.org:
http://www.8lebel.org/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=71&Itemid=759

You can find BA as "Parc d'Artillerie de Bastia" in the Cartoucherie section, BA as "Fonderies et Laminoirs de Paris anc ets Basset Harfleur" in the metal supplier section ("fournisseur" infrench) and BA as "Poudrerie annexe de Bassens" in the Poudreries section.

I can add that some old mistakes or misunderstood still exist like VS as "Parc d'Artillerie de Versaille", but VS is also "Cartoucherie de Vincennes (VIS) on 8mm Lebel and 7,5 MAS cartridges headstamps.And you don't find it in any list.
As far as i know, a "Parc d'artillerie" had never manufactured parts of ammo but had only loaded artillery ammo.

An other quite common misunderstood is for PDPs given as "Parc d'artillerie de Paris". In reality PDPs is "Pinchart-Deny Paris".One continues to (re)discover some regularly in the old documents .

I hope that my explanations are understanding like my English.

Regards
Domi​
 
French codes

Merci, that is a very useful post and link.

It is the same with the British codes, often something is written that is in error but becomes accepted as fact over time.

Regards
TonyE
 
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