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How do you resize your British 4.5 inch Howitzer Round for Display?

M

M8owner

Well-Known Member
I just picked this up off a US auction site - hotly contested, I might add. When it showed up, the casing neck was too wide for display with the projectile - repainted, of course. I had a cut-down US Navy 5 inch shell casing that I was wondering how to gainfully employ. It made the perfect raw material for a resizing die. Now, the projectile fits just fine. Primer comes out now also. This was probably a one time use tool for me. Does anyone else need its services - you will need a large shop press?

Also, did the guy who repainted the projectile get it right?

4.5 inch 2.jpg4.5 inch.jpg
 
Not really.

Re-necking looks good. Could we have a close up of headstamp and base of projectile please.

TimG
 
Awww....now my balloon has had all the air let out of it. It was owned by a guy with a fantastic WWI shell collection - in the US. What would be the proper markings and color scheme? Close ups attached. I suppose that I will have to repaint it. I also will bet that you are going to tell me a 1916 projectile should not be mated with a 1910 dated Mark I casing - should probably be a Mark II? The fuse has no markings. Should this have a No. 100 fuse? Fuse is steel with a brass tip. It looks like the projectile was chrome plated at one time.


4.5 inch 3.jpg4.5 inch 4.jpg
 
I hate to say it to you, M8owner but the 4.5 Howitzer is a separate loaded round.

The projectile is not meant to be a good fit in the case since the shell is rammed and then the case loaded.
 
No surprise on the separate loading issue. However, I have never seen a separate loading casing that does not mate with its projectile. Never say never though. Maybe you Brits do things differently.
 
Actually all separate loading projectiles need to have a diameter at least as large as the greatest OD of the projo rotating band. Their function is to seal the chamber by expanding. The chamber is at least as large as the OD of the projectile so it can be rammed. Very large projectiles have rotating bands at least an inch or more larger than the projo. If the cases were made at the smaller diameter, they would split upon firing, causing catastrophic failure and killing the gun crew. All of the U.S. Navy separate loading cases are grossly larger than their projos. German WWI and WWII cases are much larger than their projectiles, along with the U.K. rounds.

Maybe you are getting semifixed like 105H and 75H confused with separate loading?
 
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A quick search of the web shows a 4.5 projectile on display in the Royal Artillery Museum sitting on its casing like mine. I also found a drawing out there with the as manufactured shell casing dimensions. The evidence seems to support that I know what I am doing.
 
Well...the fact remains...the projectile was NOT designed to sit in the case. For display purposes I have always seen the case and projectile side by side..... but, it's a purely personal thing. Whatever lights your fire. Museums are sometimes notoriously wrong also.
 
Having looked at the 1927 dated handbook it shows a 4.5-inch case with the glazedboard lid sitting flush with the mouth of the case so it wouldn't be possible to fit a projectile into a case if it held a propellant charge.
The fuzes listed in 1927 for HE rounds are: No. 101E, No. 106E, No. 106, No 188M
 
You guys are sort of mis-using the term "separate loading" which means any round in which the components are loaded into the weapon separately. This would include both bag and cased propellants. The proper term for a cased round would be "separated" ammunition. Nit-picking, to be sure, but I'm a well known nit- picker.

To make things a little more confusing, separated ammunition is not always loaded separate. Both projectile and case can be loaded with one stroke of the rammer.

The case for a separated cartridge is usually closed by a cork or plastic plug and the projectile cannot be fitted in the case. The difference in diameter between the projectile rotating band and the case mouth is not much. For a mid-sized caliber, such as 4 or 5 inches, the difference is typically only about 1/4" or less. I'm not familiar with any where the difference between case mouth diameter and bore is more than 1/2".

A separated ammunition case splitting upon firing would be a very uncommon occurrence. But, even if it did, the result would not be a catastrophic failure of the system. At worst, there could be gas leakage which would be vented off, based on the safety design of the gun.

End of sermon.

Ray (former USN Gunners Mate)
 
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In the Handbook its referred to as Quote:

The ammunition issued with the Q.F., 4.5-inch howitzer equipment is of the separate "Q.F. type," i.e. the cartridge case and shell are not secured together and must therefore be loaded separately into the howitzer.

italics in the original. Source Handbook for the Q.F., 4.5-inch. marks I and II howitzers. 1927. Page 138
 
From the 1917 Handbook -

“General Notes”

The ammunition issued with this equipment is of the separate type. The projectile and cartridge are not secured together, and must be loaded separately into the howitzer.

Additionally -

The cartridge case is described as having a slight taper to assist extraction.

When the case is filled with either N.C.T. or Cordite the case is closed with a leatherboard cup that is flush with the end of the case.

TimG
 
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The paints not to bad, according to the manual (again 1927) stencilled on the nose should be the calibre and numeral of shell and the filled weight marking (+ or -) all in one line i.e. 4.5HOWX-1
The other markings seem accurate but too neat!
If your shell has the 'economy' driving band it should have two black vertical stripes painted on opposite sides of the shell.
As noted above this is from a post WW1 handbook so the above may not be accurate for a war time projectile.

Edit: the 1927 handbook describes the case:

The brass cartridge case is tapered to the front to expand against the walls of the chamber of the howitzer on firing and form a seal for the propellant gases.
 
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It would appear it has been re-painted in accordance with the 1927 handbook.

Your choice of fuzes is as follows - 17, 44, 100, 101, 102 or 106.

The projectile was manufactured by Harrisburg Pipe & Pipe Bending Co. USA

TimG
 
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Thank you Tim. I had no idea this was made in the US. I guess the keystone should have given it away. What type fuse is currently on it?
 
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