ID required: red/black plastic dummy cartriges 13.2mm calibre & .50 cal flechette

[Darkman]

A friend recently acquired these 3 items and is looking to identify them.
Red and black plastic dummy cartridges with plated steel base and primer dent/hole.
Dummies are shown alongside a .50 cal flechette cartridge for comparison. All 3 items were sourced in the US about 10 years ago.

The dummies have a different shoulder position than the .50 cal case and the bases/rims are 20.9mm diameter – about 0.5mm larger than a .50 cal.
Measurements are as follows.
Rim and base: 20.9mm
Shoulder: 18.3mm approx.
Mouth/proj: 13.2mm
Rim thickness: 2.0mm
Base to shoulder: 68mm
Base to neck: 83mm
Overall length: 118mm

The .50 cal flechette cartridge has a grey 4-segment flechette sabot and is non-magnetic. A steel point cannot be seen in the sabot, so maybe it’s missing the sabot? It’s still firmly crimped in the case so we don’t want to remove it. The case headstamp is LC 78.

Any information on the plastic dummy or flechette cartridges greatly appreciated.

Thanks, Graeme

 

[US-Subs]

I don't have one in the collection, but the one with the sabot looks a bit like the .50 DUDS round, which may explain the lack of steel. Try a different instrument.

 

[imaokie2000]

This is the two in my collection. The round on the left is the actual round that is in the X-Ray photo on the left. You can see in the X-Ray photo the flechette is not as dense as lead in the other photos. It is made of carbide, I think. They were loaded by AAI in 1980.

 

[US-Subs]

Looks identical to yours.

I've seen two of the DUDS in the past two years, one was a cutaway with the flechette exposed. Both were in bad shape, their owners did not understand what needed to be done to preserve them and they had oxidized to where they crumbled when touched. I was trying to explain it to one of the collectors when he told me that his was fine and he picked it up, it broke into two pieces and then a third. I thought he was going to cry. I've got pictures of it, I'll try and dig them out.

 

[US-Subs]

Here is the picture, I had the sabots confused. DUDS is the bottom one. I though that I had a picture of the dart after it broke, I don't see it in the file. I may have not taken it in a rare moment of politeness during his grief. I've also included a picture of the 7.62mm DUDS and a 30-06 (.30 cal) DUDS.

 

[imaokie2000]

Yep, that's the elusive DU. A once in a lifetime find. I still keep a lookout though.

 

[US-Subs]

Thing to remember is that, when the material is exposed, it oxidizes rapidly. I tried to explain that to the owner of the one pictured, saying that if you are going to keep it then it should be sealed with something (clear nail polish, lacquer, etc.) both from a preservation and a health point of view. This was when he picked it up to show me that his was fine and it fell apart in his hands. The rules for possessing DU are hazy in the US, you can get on a list to purchase large quantities (weight in boat keels, etc.) but there are significant legal handling and disposal concerns due to the health issues from dust etc. Your collection should not expose you or innocent bystanders to hazard. I've seen some of these guys letting their grandchildren play in the area of their collection, when you are talking about free-floating dust being the hazardous component it takes on a new meaning.

 

[imaokie2000]

We and I use the word loosely, think that since DU is generally legal to own, it must be safe. If stored properly, it is to some extent, but the fact is, no amount of radiation is safe. Unfortunately, there is no way to escape naturally occurring radiation. Even the brick in our homes contain varying amounts of radiation.

Jeff, you mentioned free-floating DU Dust. This is where DU is the most unsafe. Uranium Oxide gives off tiny amounts of Alpha and Beta Particles that is dangerous when absorbed into our cells. Just a fraction of an inch away from us, Alpha Particles are ineffective at penetrating our cell walls. Beta Particles can reach out and touch us a little farther, Distance makes DU safer. When the dust or tiny bits of DU is inhaled, ingested or injected under our skin, it sits and slowly irradiates cells at close range, killing cells or causing genetic damage to cells close by. Considering we live approximately 75 years and Uranium lives thousands of years, we can consider Uranium to last forever. Once it gets in you, it will always be in you, irradiating, killing and changing our cells.

Now, if I can ever get a DU round, I will certainly do as you said. I will paint the DU component with something clear to make sure no one gets exposed. Crazy stuff huh? I was reading about Beryllium Oxide Ceramics a couple weeks ago. The stuff is found in electronics as a insulator. Real common in microwave ovens. The dust is extremely toxic to our cells also. Man, if you are a "Tinkerer" or Curious, you just don't stand a chance!
:tinysmile_hmm_t2:
​

 

[Darkman]

Thanks for the ID on the .50 cal DU round guys. Wow DU!

But has anyone any idea on the red & black dummies?