Italian ww1 37mm?

[frijoles108]

Hello Guys,
I was looking over my 37mm books by Robert Mellichamp to identify an american 37mm and happened to flip by this page under Italian 37mm. I noticed the 37mm in this image shared the same maker mark as that of what I had previously assumed was a German projectile (for some reason). Both the projectile in the image and the maker marks on my projectile share the M inside that "shield" shape. Is my projectile in fact Italian? The only problem is that the height of the projectile is not the same as one in the image.
Image height is 91.6mm
My projectile is 93.3mm
If anyone else can help me with this it would be greatly appreciated! Information in the book is somewhat slim for Italian ammunition compared to other nations. (Sorry I still have no clue how to properly orient the pictures as they were originally.)

 

[Alpini]

A picture of the fuze would help...

 

[doctor]

the fuze look russian

 

[Alpini]

For me it's a Krupp fuze but need to see it completely to be sure.

 

[a1brassansteel]

Hi..... GERMAN... ANTI AIRCRAFT WITH NARROW ROTATING BAND

 

[frijoles108]

Yeah the book says its a license copy of a krupp design so I'd expect it's krupp style (although ill try to get a photo of it out of the projectile).

 

[frijoles108]

So I have been able to remove the upper piece of the fuze cap, it still has its internals minus a heavily rusted spring. I am able to provide a rough drawing though of what we can expect for the fuze based off the interior measurements i made with my dial caliper. Thats the best I can do for now (no worries cavity beneath fuze is empty I checked with an inspection flashlight that can fit), until I can brainstorm a way to remove the lower half of the fuze without damaging anything. As a side note I highly recommend getting the steelman 3/32 inch diameter flashlight, it comes in very handy for various things.
(one sec pics not uploading right)

 

[Gspragge]

It is the German HE round for various 37mm trench cannons. There are two band widths, wide and
narrow like the AA tracer types. This was not used for AA fire as it has a PD contact fuze. The proper
case is a 1917 or 1918 (1918 prefer'd in your case) case with no crimps or one that had crimps which have been resized flat(1918 primer).
The narrow banded version is much harder to find than the wide band version. The wide band corresponds
the to 1890s Gruson export types with four ribs (as does the fuze), except the ribs have not been cut. The base of the projectile
unscrews and the charge was loaded thusly, the detonator was set/pressed into the top of the charge. The drawing refers to this as a Navel
round, I doubt it, I think it was an Army round.

 

[frijoles108]

For the most important dimensions on the drawing. The fuze is 24mm approximately where it meets the projectile and is (including the known interior lengths) probably around 31 to 32 mm tall.

 

[frijoles108]

Why would it have the same maker mark as on the projectile remarked as italian in the book? Or is that a error by Robert? I'd love to find out the manufacturer (whoever it is)

 

[Gspragge]

What page are you referring to ? This round has nothing to do with Italy ?

 

[frijoles108]

The page from Robert mellichamps book I photographed. The Italian projectile has the identical maker mark on my projectile.

 

[frijoles108]

Here is the image from Robert's page, I'm entirely open though to him having documented a mismatched casing and projectile though. (To be clear I agree its the same as the German projectile you identified as, I am just discussing the maker mark that it shares with the Italian cartridge in Roberts book. I am almost certain now it is German).

 

[Gspragge]

I would challenge that round - I have not heard of another in any collection.
A German projectile in an Italian case. No way would this have been licensed
to italy during ww1 as they were at odds with each other to put it mildly.
If by chance the Italians had copied it, the marking would be different or absent. They did copy
Austrian rounds for the obvious reason they had captured Austrian guns.
I don't know the source of this and unfortunately drawings are used instead of actual
images. There are errors and omissions in the books which is what happens to any one
publishing, out comes the book then every one says well What about This one ~ it never ends.
Example, I sent him an image of my Russian PD round, he says it shouldn't exist ~ Why ?
Well because the Russians never made them. How ever before the Russians began licensed
production they purchased straight from Hotchkiss, so My projectile is made by Hotchkiss for Russia prior
to 1890. It was in the Russian munition supply until it was captured in 1904 and ended up in Japan
which is where it came from. It just so happened that they did not continue the type and just used the solid shot and base fuzed
versions. Hotchkiss PD rounds are often or mostly unmarked, the base fuzed one always marked due
to matching numbered bases. Out there some where is a base fuzed Russian style Hotchkiss Paris projectile
yet undiscovered. But I digress ------- :tinysmile_hmm_t:

 

[frijoles108]

Ok thank you Gspragge! I was sorta thinking it was a bit odd also. I have noticed some other questionable things in the book also, so I'm glad to hear you confirm that.