Mills Grenades N 36 MI and N 36 M MKI.

[Grenademan2005]

Hi all:
I was looking at a sectioned Mills N 36 that I have and I have seen that the base plug is marked N 36 MI. I have checked in the Daves site, but he doesnt explain what is the difference between the N 36 MI and N 36 M MKI. Only that the M MKI is the WWII type. The center tube is 1942 dated and Z marked. I wait your lessons about. :tinysmile_shy_t:

 

[gothica7]

Hi Miguel,

i dont know a lot but i hope this helps.

the M specification after 36 M Mk 1 stands for Mesapotamia and means that the gren was specially waterproofed for a tropical climate to prevent blinds or duds. This was originally introduced with the no 23 M Mk 11 and went on with the No 23 M Mk111 and the 36 M Mk1. Normal grens were also produced at this time. My documents date from Jan 1918.
The grens were marked slightly differently, standard versions had the top of the gren painted red, M examples had a line of 3 red crosses along the side of the top 3 segments with a half inc filler band around the centre.
The waterproofing consisted of chinese wax or madagascar beeswax 20 parts, unvulcanised rubber 2 parts lanoline 78 parts and the gren was prepared as follows;

The spring, striker,and pivots of striker lever are to be lightly coated with oil or mineral jelly[vaseline i suppose]. Before inserting the centre piece in the grenade the threads are to be coated with waterproofing composition.In order to make the joint between the top of the centre piece and the grenade airtight the same composition may be used or alternatively a mixture of methylated spirit and shellac.With either of these mixtures or without them if desired a lead washer may be used with the centre piece screwed well home on the washer.A fillet of the waterproofing compisition is to be placed round the edge of the striker hole in the top of the grenade and also workedinto the groove round the striker.
The joints between the centrepiece and the grenade body are to be made absolutly airtight. The threads of the base plug are to be coated with an anti-corrosive grease.

As i said before normal unwaterproofed grens were also made at the same time and this whole process started during WW1, although by WW2, all 36s were so treated and all marked No 36 M Mk1. I think it was common sense in the end do do this to all the grens, even though it increased both production costs and the time it took to make the gren.

Hope this helps,

Andy

 

[Fuzeman]

Hi Miguel
looking at Text Book of Ammunition 1936 it states
The 36m Mk1 differs from the 36 in having the screw threads of the base plug and centre piece and the portion of the striker head where it emerges from the top of the grenade covered with a special waterproofing composition for use in the tropics climates
Steve

 

[Fragman]

Hi Miguel, Nice grenade. The most significant change between the No36 MkI and the No36 M Mk1 (that I’m aware of) is the way the aluminium insert seals against the top of the grenade. With the No 36 MkI (stripped in photo) you will see that there is a soft washer used as a seal. With the 36 M MkI (cutaway photo) the design was changed to a labyrinth seal and the washer discarded. I will check my reference books tonight and see if there are any other changes worth noting. Hope this helps.

 

[gothica7]

I have a 1972 gren with the washer still in situ so it was used by various makers right to the end of the production of the gren.

Andy

 

[Fragman]

Hi Andy, Thanks for that interesting piece of info. Cheers Colin

 

[gothica7]

Hi Colin,
i believe the labyrinth seal was known as 'machining of the crown' and was in use from the 23 Mk 1 onwards and certainly on some No 5s too and was one way of waterproofing the gren. In my mind, looking at it, i reccon it would actually make a better seal than a lead washer but lead being soft would also do a good job so both systems ran side by side.
Your cutaway looks like its a propper quarter section, very nice. Do you have any makers marks and dates on the plug?
Andy

 

[Fragman]

Hi Andy, Whilst it's impossible to be sure, I believe it's an original factory cutaway. If so, it was made by Booth MacDonald (BM) in 1941. Cheers Colin

 

[Grenademan2005]

gothica7, you are right, you dont know a lot about.... you know a ton about!! Many thanks for the time used for write the answer.
I added a very closer pic of another cut that I have, it this the labyrinth seal that you say Colin? I have others WWII Mills that still have the lead ring on the top of the center tube.
gothica7 and Fuzeman bid for waterproofing process with wax, etc, kiwicolin bids for mechanical ways as lead ring and labyrinth seal.... more bids, please.
Another interesting question for me is: would be right to put the 36MI not dated base plug in an early WWII Mills 36? I have one Mills dated with each year of the war, but until now I could not get a 1939 plug, so would be correct to place the 36MI plug on the Mills that represent the 1939 year?

Opps, post 200 arty:arty:arty:arty:

 

[Fragman]

Hi Miguel, There no doubt that the "M" designation indicates the inclusion of the waterproofing compound during assembly. That point is a very well documented fact and not for debate or a vote. I was also under the impression that there was a physical change to the grenade body, with a shift from a recess and lead washer seal to a labyrinth and liquid seal. If recessed and washer sealed grenades were still being manufactured in 1972, this is obviously not the case. Cheers Colin

 

[gothica7]

Hi Colin,
if its a quarter section and very accurately done then i too reccon its a factory section or at least done by an armoury for training purposes. And if done by the armoury, it would have been done by expert engineers keen to show they were good at their job too. Nice gren with i am sure an original base plug.
Andy

 

[gothica7]

Hi Miguel,
you can of course use the undated plug for the 1939 gren, its your perogative but remember, the gren will be a 36 M Mk 1 and if i were you i would keep hunting for the correct dated plug, one day i am sure you will find it. Happy hunting.

Andy

 

[Grenademan2005]

Hi:
I dont want to do a thing that it is not historically right. In fact I never do it. It is so important to have an original factory sectioned grenade? Why? Mine has been repainted by me it is a Frost and Woods one with matching dates on base plug and center tube 1943.

 

[gothica7]

Hi Miguel,

no, its not important to have a factory done sectioned gren, only nice, thats all. To have one at all is a great thing, especially if you have painted and restored it yourself. Well done bud, never done that myself, not too good at restoring things.

Andy

 

[Grenademan2005]

:nurse:I just painted it. Have you seen a 1939 dated base plug in your collectors life?, apart from the one in the Daves site.

 

[gothica7]

Hi Miguel,

yes i have seen a 1939 plug on a gren a while back when ebay used to allow them but not since. Will keep my eyes peeled for one for you.

Andy

 

[Grenademan2005]

Hi:
Thank you very much Allan, I need for the 1939 Mills grenade a right center tube and the safety level too. The body reserved for be the 1939 one is CC marked with an arrow in the filler plug. If any of you have one or more of these wanted parts and his name is not Allan it doesnt matter to me.... the parts will be very well welcomed anyway. :tinysmile_fatgrin_t

 

[paul the grenade]

Heres a 36m I have that has never had its pin pulled. The top of the striker is surrounded by a sealing wax of some sort which suggests the internal seal was not perfect.
Paul.

 

[Grenademan2005]

Paul, great pic. An a rare grenade with pin never pulled off.

 

[Panzerbr]

some Mills N.36 caps I found on the field. they all come from exploded grenades,because you could see they are a bit deformed due to impact. Interestingly they are anyway still in good shapes. They have different years and markings, the one up left is made or iron and the one bottom right was just found this morning.