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New piece for the collection......a Babbitt sling grenade

ordnance

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
I haven't posted in a while but thought you guys would enjoy seeing the newest grenade in the collection. It's an American Babbitt sling grenade from the 1911-1917 period.

In the pre-WWI era when sling type hand grenades were fairly popular around the world, this was the type adopted by the U.S. Ordnance Department and manufactured at Frankford Arsenal. I believe its design was credited to Col. E.B. Babbitt, who also developed the companion rifle grenade of that period. Col. Babbitt eventually retired as a Major General after commanding a brigade in WWI and died in 1939. I don't think his grenade designs were the high water mark of his military career.

By the time the Americans entered the war, the troops in the trenches had already discovered the problems with sling grenades and stick types with excessively long handles that detonated when they hit the back side of the trench. And with fine designs like the Mills No.5 and French F1 already in service, the sling grenade was obsolete before it ever got there. I don't think any of the Babbitt hand grenades were ever used in combat though there is some indication a few of the rodded rifle types might have.

The grenade was a simple cylinder filled with TNT with a percussion fuze fitted in the closing plug. Similar to the British No. 1, the grenade had a firing pin mounted in the outer cap which, upon landing, overcame the small safety studs on the grenade body to fire the fuze. Unfortunately, my example is missing the outer cap, but I plan to fabricate one from the manual drawing to complete it.

The type illustrated in the manual was the last version with a simple knot in the rope, which was apparently frayed to produce the streamer function. The earliest type had the wooden ball and cloth streamer as shown in the photos but had a teardrop shaped body much more similar to the Japanese grenade it was apparently patterned after. Between those two types was the style show here, the middle pattern of 3 styles used in its short 7 year service life.

I first saw this one about 20 years ago when it was brought to a local militaria show for me to identify. I tried unsuccessfully to buy it then and it was later traded to a collector in California. I continued to contact the owner over the years but could never come to terms. I hadn't seen him in about 4 years but ran into him at a gun show in Reno two weeks ago. He was in a better mood for trading and the grenade finally came home with me, after a very long 20 year wait. Sometimes it pays to be persistant.

I only know of one other survivor of this type in the U.S. but would love to hear about others. Any chance samples went to England for testing and survive there? Norman?
 

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And a couple more images of the sling details...
 

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Very nice scarce bit of kit, persistance pays in the end, well done. Any chance of another?

Andy
 
Realy rare item in such good conditions !!

Realy rare item i like it i wish to have one !!

Thanks for the pics !!

best regards David
 
Congratulations on such a Ultra Rare find.
Im now going to pester you for the next 20 years till you reluctantly sell it to me.
"Can i buy it please?":tinysmile_shy_t:
Cheers, Paul.
 
Babbitt

I haven't posted in a while but thought you guys would enjoy seeing the newest grenade in the collection. It's an American Babbitt sling grenade from the 1911-1917 period.
[...]
I only know of one other survivor of this type in the U.S. but would love to hear about others. Any chance samples went to England for testing and survive there? Norman?

I have not seen one over here (or anywhere else!), nor have I come across any documentation that would suggest any UK interest from a trials point of view. However if the grenade got to France I wouldn't be surprised that a British Ordnance Officer liberated one for return to the UK - so there is hope :)
 
a fine grenade

Great grenade ordnance, thanks for showing and the very interesting write-up you included. Top shelf. When you get tired of it just "sling" it to Illinois..Dano
 
Thanks to all for the kind replies.

Paul, no you may not buy it yet. The "new" hasn't begun to wear off yet. While I know you have my email address and I'm bracing for years of pleading emails, you'll just have to wait for my estate sale like everyone else.

Norman, I didn't think it would hurt to specifically ask in your direction. Considering the research you have done over the years, I was curious if you had seen anything official regarding the Babbitt in British files. There's probably a greater chance something would turn up on the rifle launched version, but even that was a poor and overly complex design needing a better replacement before even going into service. The only reason we would have used them in France is that we already had a ready supply that could ship immediately with the troops. I'm just not sure it ever happened.

Which brings me to Rick; thanks for the Babbitt patent info. I was recently looking at this while researching the hand grenade. It was surprising as the service rifle grenade credited to E.B. Babbitt bears so little resemblance to the one in the patent illustration. Take a look at the attached view from the manual. About the only feature retained was the use of the grooved rod with brass ranging spring clip. The percussion nose fuze was gone as were the wings similar to the Italian rifle grenade.

The actual issued grenade had unique features that I always expected to see in the Patent related to it, but aren't there. It functioned by allowing some of the flame from the launching cartridge to pass through the hollow rod and diagonal passages of the grenade body. In the illustration, item h was a pair of compressed black powder safety pellets which held the safety pins in contact with the plunger and firing pin assembly. When the flame reached the pellets and burned them, the extra room remaining allowed the safety pins to move outward on impact, freeing the firing pin and plunger to slide forward.

Not a very efficient design as it would have been expensive and difficult to manufacture, but certainly a unique one. I guess that's one of the reasons I like grenades so much, especially those of the WWI period. There always seemed to be another hair-brained fuzing scheme that would lead to the perfect grenade. In reality, it usually led to another overly complex and expensive design so full of extra parts and features that there wasn't any room left for explosive. It MIGHT go off when it got to the target, but usually with less than spectacular results.
 

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Super, rare U.S. early grenade(s).. The reply with the patent drawing shows the rifle grenade by the same inventor. Items I have neither seen or read of before!.. This IS the site for information!..:tinysmile_shy_t:
 
Rolex of grenades

I guess argueably, this has to be about the rarest of all US grenades (made in the last 150 years anyway). Hats off to you as this would be the holy grail of US grenade collecting
 
back in the mid 90's I became the proud owner of a practice Babbitt rifle grenade.... I bought it for 5 dollars at a MV show here in the States, it was marked as a "sea mine fuze"!
The body was painted light grey the steel shaft had been painted with aluminum paint making it hard to see the rings along it with ranging numbers and a brass ring sliding stop the base of the shaft had the brass concave tip....the body was marked "inert" I disposed of my collection back in 2000 to 2002 and sadly it went back then.... I will dig through my old computer hard drive and see if I still have photos. at this point my photo's are my museum.....
 
I have not seen one over here (or anywhere else!), nor have I come across any documentation that would suggest any UK interest from a trials point of view. However if the grenade got to France I wouldn't be surprised that a British Ordnance Officer liberated one for return to the UK - so there is hope :)

If he did it was probably destroyed when the RE Collection was destroyed all those years ago.

John
 
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