butterfly
HONOURED MEMBER RIP
I'm not convinced. The difference between a fake and a reproduction is simply intent. And a reproduction is a fake without malice - when it was created. Reproduction is just a softening of the word so that is less offensive to those who partake.
While an individual may feel that their intent in making the fake is harmless, they are not likely to be the last owner of the item. The next owner may not be so pure of heart. To think otherwise I feel is incredibly short-sighted. As Ordnance mentioned in a different thread today in regard to an item of his, "you'll just have to wait for my estate sale like everyone else". You should recognize that the items in your collection live on beyond yourself or your ideals. When you are gone you will have little to say about where your collection - or fakes, end up.
This is a justifiably proud forum of collectors, the British Ordnance Collectors Network, yet more and more frequently I see threads and posts from people that seem to lack the patience or drive to actually collect. Individuals that want the immediate satisfaction of filling their shelf today. Fading away is the empty space reserved for that piece I've been hunting for all my life. This goes both for the fakes and for the restorations. Making a cover for a sticky bomb, in example, is not restoration. It is putting a fake cover on your grenade. Some of the same people that praise the workmanship on these items have in the past lamented about items seen on auction sites, asking forum members "is it original?" "has this been faked?". This very forum has a section with tips in an effort to try and spot fakes.
Mike, your comments on the 24s not fooling anyone are based on perspective, personal experience and your own manner of purchasing items. Not everyone has the same background or ability. For the less experienced collector in Kansas, the Ukraine, Australia etc - trying to make a purchase from a photo on an auction site, this may be the first one they ever see - you saw one for the first time once as well. In the future you will buy other items that you will see for the first time. Wouldn't it be nice to buy a stick grenade off the internet, without serious concerns that it was made in someone's garage in 2009?
This is not a rant against ftobert - he is a machinist, they like to play with their tools, I get that. I mean him no offense, at least not personally. This is a rant against the rest of you, who I believe are being short-sighted and hypocritical in supporting actions of this type that directly and indirectly threaten the history and the study of something I care very much about. All of you that have collected for more than a few years know the frustration. Studying a piece you have found for which you have little or no information, trying to determine if it is an actual piece of history - a variation or something unknown, a licensed copy or a factory reject - or instead some piece of trash, made by anyone for any of a dozen reasons - none of them relevant to the actual history or functioning of the true item.
As they say, it is a free world, and we all know what opinions are like, mine included. In case it got lost in my rant above, I have no time for fakes. I am an ordnance collector.
Jeff I totally agree with what you are saying in principle.
Unfortunately the world we live in is not so honest. The real issue here is money, once anything has any value, be it ordnance or anything else it is faked. Already its not possible to buy a Stick Grenade or even a Mills in some cases without doubt as to wether you are buying an original.
I, and I am sure many others, would love to live in a world where everything we bought could carry a 100% guarantee as being original. Unfortunately its not the case, wether we like it or not there is a market for reproduction items, be it for re-enactor, person with limited funds (though in this case I would rather have 1 good item than 100+ replica) or indeed people filling gaps.
I wish we could live in the perfect world, but alas it will never be.
I understand your frustration and future concerns
I wish everyone was as honest as ftobert in stamping up parts, but ommit that stamp - someone erase it/fill it and thats where problems begin.
regards Kev