please identity

[Bellifortis]

This small fuze has absolutely no markings. can anbody identify it : coutry of origion, model, use and if possible a sectional drawing. The material is aluminum.
Regards,
Bellifortis.

 

[Nabob]

Could be the tip of the german Hbgr. Please see top left on the picture.
Bob

 

[MINENAZ16]

Pictures to compare :

 

[highlandotter]

What shell and gun used this? Thanks, the Otter.

 

[Nabob]

The one Sebastian showed was used on 21cm K.Gr. 38
The Hbgr Z 35 (35/3) could be used with these projectiles (and one rocket):
17cm K.Gr. 38 (Hb)
21cm K.Gr. 35
21cm K.Gr. 38
24cm Gr. 42
24cm Gr 42/1
28cm K.Gr. 35
28cm K.Gr. 35 (Ei)
28cm K.Gr. 35 (Üb)
28cm Gr. 39
28cm Gr. 39 (Ei)
28cm Gr. 42
28cm Gr. 42 (Ei)
28cm Gr. 39/42
21cm Wgr. 42 Spr.

Add the Hbgr. Z. 40 with
Si.Gr. L/4,5 Bdz.u.Kz.(m.Hb.)
40cm Gr. 40

Might be missing some, if so please feel free to respond.

Bob

 

[sgdbdr]

Good evening,

I'm confused.
I know Hbgr.Z.35/3 and Hbgr.Z.35 K.
They are both supposed to be conical (see picture). Drawings from "Munition lexikon band 1" or "Geschoβzündungen Heft 2 - Aufschlagzünder (Kopfzünder)"



Yet, the on the pictures uploaded by MINENAZ16, the top part of the fuze seems to be cylindrical (like Hbgr.Z.17)
What am I missing ?

Regards,

S.

 

[Nabob]

Please see the remark in the manual.

Bob

 

[sgdbdr]

Bob,


Thanks for your answer. I am sure it's useful but I have problems to read and translate the remark (I don't speak german and google is a poor translator when it comes to whole texts).
Can you explain in english, please ?


Regards,

S.

 

[Nabob]

It is about time that google starts to translate weapon and ammo terminology propperly.
Here my translation:
For fuzes of older manufacture the following applies: The membrane on the fuze is removed with the help of a screwdriver and the short wooden rod is removed. Then the screw under the (Umbördelung – whatever it is – google translated it as beading distribution ) is loosened by one thread length, the funnel is screwed in and fixed with the screw. The Screw is tightened until it is forced into the metal of the funnel. Then follow the instructions above.

This means that the upper part of the fuze is of two piece construction. Here a pic cut from the same manual.
Bob

 

[Bellifortis]

It is about time that google starts to translate weapon and ammo terminology propperly.
Here my translation:
For fuzes of older manufacture the following applies: The membrane on the fuze is removed with the help of a screwdriver and the short wooden rod is removed. Then the screw under the (Umbördelung – whatever it is – google translated it as beading distribution ) is loosened by one thread length, the funnel is screwed in and fixed with the screw. The Screw is tightened until it is forced into the metal of the funnel. Then follow the instructions above.

This means that the upper part of the fuze is of two piece construction. Here a pic cut from the same manual.
Bob

I also don't know what the word "Umboerdelung" means in english. But, I'm shure we will find out. When you reload shotgunshells, the last operation (there are old manual tabletools for this operation) is turning over the topedge of the shelltube, inside, so the paperdisc is fixed by this "Umboerdelung". What's the english word for this ?
Bellifortis.

 

[sgdbdr]

Good afternoon,


I understood quite the same with GOOGLE's help.
But I still don't understand why in some cases the adapter is conical, and in other cases cylindrical :



Regards,

S.

 

[Nabob]

I would say because the conical one is a one piece construction, not an adapter but a part of the setting ring.
The whole part would be easier to manufacture this way.


Bob

 

[sgdbdr]

Bob,

Nice cutaway !

Normally, a different construction would imply a different version and a slightly different name, would it?

Regards,

S.

 

[Nabob]

Yes it would.
The Hbgr. 35 K did have Ausf. A, B and C, but the texts mention only different delay time, no mention of the funnel adapter.

Unfortunately that cuttaway is not mine
Thanks to the Dresdner Sprengschule I was able to make the photo.

Bob

 

[Bellifortis]

There is also mentioned, in the manual, that there are old and new constructions of the same fuze.

 

[highlandotter]

The American English word for shotgun shells for securing the top wad is crimping from my experience.