Turkish 75mm shrapnel

[Collector56]

another recent acquisition, a German made 75mm shrapnel round for Turkey
in pretty good condition, complete with brass/steel case, 75 X 190R

the primer seems to have been altered with a brass insert and an alternative primer fitted
perhaps for Turkish requirements, not too sure.

date is difficult to read but looks like June 1916

base of projectile is stamped 30M11

any information appreciated

 

[MINENAZ16]

Hello,
I can see Rheinmetall stamp on case.
Maybe Alpini could help for this round.
The length of the shell without fuze seems to be 193/195mm like German 7.5 shrapnel for mountain gun, is it right ?
Regards

 

[Dronic69]

Great find!

 

[Alpini]

The "brass insert" is a rivet connecting the steel base to the brass case, it's not altered. These cases were allowed to be reloaded. For that the Berdan type primer was removed by applying water pressure through the vent holes.

Can you take a picture of the Bottom of the fuze?

 

[Collector56]

thanks to everyone
I now know the case is by Rheinmetall (Minenaz16, the case is exactly 191mm long)
and the brass primer pocket is normal

the fuse is unfortunately, missing all the internal bits
i can see the fixed firing pin and not much else (photo attached)

 

[Alpini]

Thank you for taking the picture. Your fuze is made by Krupp. It already worked - that's why it is missing the internal bits because these were only fixed by the fuzes base plate. The shrapnel is made by a unknown private company "M" in 1911 and it is from the 30th delivery of this company. One delivery was ten thousand pieces so at this time over 300000 pieces were produced by "M". This sounds much but during war even not very popular companies produced several such deliverys in one month (and today these are still very rare :- ). It is stamped in prussian military style but without prussian acceptance stamps. The fuze also fits well into this time. So I think the shrapnel was delivered in peace time from a sub contractor to Krupp and Krupp delivered it to Turkey. During war the german made ammunition for Turkey and Bulgaria was accepted and stamped officially by the german ammunition arsenals and were delivered from there.

The calibre is as usual written on the fuze cap: "7,5" (cm).

I would be happy about good pictures of the stamps on the fuze (not the numbers on the time ring). But most probably I am unable to translate them. I tried to let translate these turkish markings be several people but I haven't had any success. To only translated markings I found out myself without beeing able to read them The turkish people can't read the letters. Arabic people can read maybe 50% of the letters but don't understand their meaning. It seems the letters are stamped in a very simplified and hard to read manner. Maybe we are 80 years to late.

I don't understand why the shrapnel comes with a late war "Ersatz" (spare metal) case.

 

[Collector56]

thank you Alpini
that is much more information than i had ever hoped to uncover
very much appreciate your efforts.

i have attached pictures of the several markings on the fuse nose.
as you say, languages have changed markedly over the last 100 years or so
much of these old words are now lost

 

[MINENAZ16]

Hello Collector56,
My question was about length of the shell without fuze, not the case. Only to check if the shell is 193/195mm like ww1 7.5 mountain shrapnel.
Thanks.
Regards

 

[Collector56]

Apologies minenaz16, my miunderstanding
Measures as follows
Base to mouth = 176mm
Base to top edge of adaptor ring = 185mm