Vistad bombs 1936-1941 - new data

[Dreamk]

When sgbdr posted a link to the Bundesarchiv today, it enabled me to discover a previously unknown mine of digital material. Among these no less that 4 huge files on Yugoslav bomb production between 1935 and 1941.
Here are a few preliminary worthy findings on VISTAD (Stankovic) bombs. Another post will focus on SARTID bombs (but more work is need on these before I can upload post).
I have slightly adapted the quality of the drawings to enable their posting here.

Stankovic 12kg Model 35 Training bomb


Stankovic 12kg Model 36 (the original first production model was from 1934)


Vistad 50kg M-39 (such as these bomb designated in the text of the files)

L 1145mm
D 210mm

Vistad 50kg M-41

L 1130 + Fuze 90 = 1220mm
D 210mm
Length Fins 560 mm
Length circular ring 180 mm
Length Space between end body and circular ring 80mm

Vistad 100kg M-38

L 1566mm according to text but 1465mm according to plan (same as 100kg M-39)
D 250mm
100kg incl, 46kg explosive
M-28 fuze with detonator 133.20 (nose) and M-28 fuse with detonator 125.20 (rear)
Instant (0.0)s 0.10s 0.25s

Vistad 100kg M-39

L 1465mm (length body 1167mm)
D 250mm
Length of fins 615mm
Length if annular fin reinforcement 192mm
W 100kg including 46kg explosive
Fuze: Instant (0.0)s 0.05s 0.10s 0.25s

Vistad 100kg M-41

L 1555mm including Fuze 90mm
D 250mm
length fins 615 mm
Length circular ring 190mm
Length Space between end body and circular ring 75 mm


These bombs were produced and saw operational use with the Yugoslav air force but after the fall of Yugoslavia in April 1941 they were also used quite intensively by the Croat air force in anti-partisan actions .

 

[sgdbdr]

I'm glad you found something I didn't !
But Invenio is such a maze that it would be easier if you could share the links to the files by using "Link kopieren" in the right side of the results page. Please !

Cheers,

S.

 

[Dreamk]

Indeed. here are the links to these files:
RW 5_766 https://invenio.bundesarchiv.de/invenio/direktlink/64f24479-bbce-48cf-ac96-1ba8282c54d4/
RW 5_767 https://invenio.bundesarchiv.de/invenio/direktlink/3b0a0a59-63d4-4fc0-8bb0-ed139cd24ce8/
RW 5_947 https://invenio.bundesarchiv.de/invenio/direktlink/132bc32c-fc2c-4cfd-82c1-d1d62fac6efa/
RW 5_948 https://invenio.bundesarchiv.de/invenio/direktlink/6efad186-222f-4c95-a1b3-82896e14964a/
Download these archives as zip files (the individual pages inside are scanned as high resolution jpg files)

The text is in Serbian, some in cyrillic, some in latin characters.

The files include among others, the documentation of the tender for the contract for new bombs to be furnished to the Yugoslavian air force in 1940-41 and the full quality control documents for the production of the 12kg Stankovic bomb.

Some of the Italian bombs bought by Yugoslavia also appear in these files (2kg Incendiary and frag spezzone, Ciment training bomb, 20kg incendiary)
Skoda bombs that were present in the stocks of the Yugoslavian air force are only briefly mentioned.

These files also give an insight into the evolution of the Sartid bombs from the PuW to their last 1941 designs - Sartid designers remained a strong advocate of "rotationary' bombs, as Bofors/ Tolfvan and Shakir Zumre designers - a development line that began, already in the late thirties, to be a dead-end way in front of the increasing speeds of bomber aircraft .

At the opposite of Vistad bombs for which photographic operational documentation exists, for Sartid the issue is more complex as if these designs were indeed tested, evidence of operational use is more problematic.

BTW there is an interesting "detail" in the reports of the tests of the various bombs running for the above mentioned contract: in the numerical performances tables, Sartid bombs are designated as "SARTID", foreign bombs (Bofors and Schneider) are designated as "Trade", but Vistad bombs are designated as "Yugoslav" .....(though Sartid were the largest Metallurgical works in Yugoslavia since 1913 and Vistad were a rather recent but successful private venture)

 

[AKON_]

Hi Dreamk
For a while, the company VISTAD was owned (i.e. shares) by Zbrojovka Brno. I found in the documents of Zbrojovka Brno part of the minutes from the shareholders' meetings of Vistad.
12 kg puma Stankovič also ordered Czechoslovak for testing. army. The number was a sample. The army tested the effectiveness of the bombs and this included the fragmentation effect on wooden screens and compared with vz.34 bombs.
Akon

 

[Dreamk]

Akon Hi!
Quite interesting. As you know the Stankovic 12kg was also successfully tested and acquired by France. However, it appears that production problems limited its exportation to other countries, the Yugoslav being even compelled to import from Poland stocks of 12kg wz.27 bomb to fulfill their own needs.

One of the aims of the The Little Entente agreement and of the later Balkanic Alliance was to increase the integration of the various armament industries of Czechoslovakia, Yugoslavia and Romania. This planning turned chaotic very fast, as it ignored the reality of the facts: the French Schneider was the main shareholders in Skoda till the early thirties, Schneider and the British Vickers-Armstrong were the main shareholders of Sartid. The crisis of 1929 demanded from the Czech and Yugoslav governments to intervene and reduce the part of these foreign "Western" shareholders and push at agreements between the companies of both countries. Most of the decisions, however, were not implemented. There was for instance a decision on making Skoda the sole producer of aircraft bombs for the 3 countries of the little entente, that obviously remained "on the paper". But it is worth taking onto account that most of Skoda patents were also deposed in Yugoslavia. Some level of integration took place but it's very difficult to assess its extent.

 

[AKON_]

Hi Dreamk
As you surely know, France wanted to maintain its influence on other countries in Europe. After a short time when this fact was understood in the Czech Republic, a new setting of this French-Czechoslovak cooperation gradually took place over a period of about 15 years...
One of these implementing bodies from the area of influence was the "French Military Mission" based in Prague, and it is certainly necessary to mention the (first) period when the first Chief of the General Staff of the Czechoslovak Army was a Frenchman.
After a short period of this "interference" by France in the Czechoslovakia, it was certain that the interests of France differed from the interests of the Czechoslovakia. On the economic level, France promoted the purchase of arms and ammunition also from France (or licenses from France) in the Czechoslovakia (soldiers, politicians) they again insisted on production in Czechoslovakia (without licenses). Skoda became a joint-stock company before that, and the purchase of Schneider's shares increased the influence of France, which the state realized and later bought back the shares.
This made them economically independent producers and the state/army was not dependent on foreign construction and import of weapons and ammunition.
Since the logic of the matter for building a prosperous state with great industrial potential was to find an outlet for the export economy as well as sources of raw materials, it was chosen to construct a new project of a political-economic-military grouping, the so-called "Little Entente".

In Škoda's documents, it is mentioned in that period of years that the price was the deciding factor for the purchase of bombs in Yugoslavia, and that Poland was lower, therefore it was prioritized in the purchase decision. In any case, modern bombs (fuze) were to be demanded by the Yugoslav air force in the future and in connection with the ČSR factory , which exported aircraft + bombs (if the customer ordered) As for the negotiations on Yugoslavia / Czechoslovakia bombs, new fuze were constructed for the customer according to his requirements (because Yugoslavia demanded the safety of the fuze in the event of an accidental fall on a concrete surface during hanging - which was a demand for new designs of bomb fuze)