What's new
British Ordnance Collectors Network

This is a sample guest message. Register a free account today to become a member! Once signed in, you'll be able to participate on this site by adding your own topics and posts, as well as connect with other members through your own private inbox!

WW2 German Navy 88mm cases

V

Vasco Da Gama

Well-Known Member
I have always struggled to correctly identify the cartridge size for the German Navy WW2 88mm guns. Pictured are 2 cases (both 88x571mm) in my collection which I think are in original condition. The grey steel case makes life easier by being marked for both the 8.8cm Flak 18 and the Navy C30St. The second brass washed case is marked: aly/6w and 42 alongside the gun designator of C/30St, paint markings indicate a charge of 2.795kg.

I understand that the following guns used different case lengths:

SKC/30 571mm
SKC/31 880mm
SKC/32 571mm
SKC/35 390mm

The WW1 gun that saw some use 8.8cm SKL/45 used the 571mm case length. Glad to have your comments!
 

Attachments

  • image.jpg
    image.jpg
    297.2 KB · Views: 116
  • image.jpg
    image.jpg
    296.5 KB · Views: 143
  • image.jpg
    image.jpg
    297.1 KB · Views: 131
I have listed five different German 88mm case types here (not all navy, of course): http://www.quarry.nildram.co.uk/ammotable10.htm

I have the 390mm case length listed for the only WW1 gun in this list: the SK C/95. The same case was used in the WW2 U-boat gun, the SK C/45.

This size of ammo is somewhat outside my comfort zone so my table may well be wrong: I'd appreciate clarification!
 
Thanks Tony
I will stick my neck out further and offer a view on German WW1 case lengths, mostly Naval, in date order:

SK C/89 30 calibres 390mm
TK C/08 30 calibres 390mm
SK C/01 35 calibres 571mm
SK C/13 45 calibres 571mm
TK C/14 45 calibres 571mm

The WW1 anti-aircraft gun (9cm Flak) used a unique case 563mm long, I have acquired 3 over the years all using the Army style of headstamp and without the Marine marking.

Pull!
 
Vasco Da Gama said:
The WW1 anti-aircraft gun (9cm Flak) used a unique case 563mm long, I have acquired 3 over the years all using the Army style of headstamp and without the Marine marking.
Click to expand...

just a little remark, these are 8,8 cm Flak and not "9 cm". The 9 cm Flak was a much different AA gun made from old 9 cm C/73/88 Field gun barrels in improvised carriages.
 
Hi, I am new to the site and trying to match the 88 case lengths to the early guns. I found some good info on the guns at http://www.navweaps.com/Weapons/WNGER_Main.htm but the ammo description is vague. Also found "The 88" by Chris Ellis and Peter Chamberlain, pub 1998. While it gives some good background on the guns, it is also a bit vague on the ammo. On p.51 it says there was a 8.8cm naval anti-aircraft SK L/45 Model 1913 which was developed into the land K-Zugflak L/45 Model 1916. Tks Vasco for first mentioning the 563mm case used in the early AA rounds. I have one of these cases and just thought it was some anomaly as I could not find it mentioned in the mainstream literature. Tks also to Charley777 for the extra list. So from your info the 563 case was used in the KZ L/45. Vasco you said the WW1 C/13 L45 used the 571 case.
Q1. Is this the same case used in the later Flak 18 or just the same length ?
Q2. If Chris & Peter are right in their book, it makes me wonder why they would shorten the case from 571 to 563 when developing the K-Zugflak L/45 Model 1916 ?
Q3. Charley777 - I lived in NZ for several years back in the 1990s and still have mates there. Let me know if you would like to have a chat offline to see if we might have some common friends.
Cheers, Waz
 
Evening Waz
I can offer a view but not a definitive answer. My understanding is that 2 different 8.8cm anti-aircraft guns were developed in 1916, one by Krupp and the other by Rheinmetall. They are very similar but can be seen to be different in photographs, but don't ask me which is which! I suspect that the Rheinmetall used the 563mm case length (I have only found examples with Army markings) and the Krupp used the existing case from their naval gun (571mm case length, I have only found WW1 cases with naval markings). I suspect post WW1 the decision was taken to use only one case length and standardise with the Navy, hence the Flak 18 case being 571mm. This is all opinion and represents a view! The other option is that the land based AA gun from both manufacturers used the 563mm case and the WW1 571mm cases are just from the Naval weapons.
 
Hi Vasco,
Thanks for the reply. An opinion is better than nothing ! Ellis & Chamberlain mentioned the RM & Krupps but gave no clue on the ammo. I would be very interested if you have photos of a WW1 571mm round, and how similar to the Flak 18, eg double drive bands ? The Germans were more practical than the Japs and tended to standardize, so I am thinking they would have maybe used just the 563 for the land, but only a guess. Still makes me wonder why they came up with a new case when they were already using the naval gun as the basis. There are good photos of the RM & Krupps guns p.12-15 in the Ellis & Chamberlain book. If you don't have it I can scan and email the pages to you.
Cheers, Waz
 
he has given the wrong length on his website, it must be 563 (official 564) like yours...
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top