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WWII French Char B Tank 75mm Hull Gun Ammunition

M

M8owner

Well-Known Member
I was keeping my eyes open for the "75 DEC" head stamp on such cases (75 X 247R) for this gun due to these German documents. However, I just came to the understanding that "DEC" means "de Campagne" or field gun, and that "75 DEC" ammunition can only be for the French Mle 1897 field gun - the famous "French 75" - which, of course, has a much longer case. So, I would like to propose that these German documents are incorrect as to the head stamp markings on the cases. My current understanding is that there are only three head stamps that can be marked on the Char B tank 75mm cases:

1. 75 Mle 1931
2. 75 O.L.E. 31
3. 75 MDC 31

I have found four of the 75 Mle 1931 cases with the help of my BOCN brothers but not the other two. I would love to get the input of our members on this topic.
 

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  • German manual on French 75mm tank ammo HE.jpg
    German manual on French 75mm tank ammo HE.jpg
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  • German manual on French 75mm tank ammo AP.jpg
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  • German manual on French 75mm tank ammo.jpg
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  • French 75mm Char B Case Head Stamp OLE 31.jpg
    French 75mm Char B Case Head Stamp OLE 31.jpg
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  • French Char B tank 75 MDC 31 case head stamp.jpg
    French Char B tank 75 MDC 31 case head stamp.jpg
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  • Char B tank 75 Mle 1931 case head stamp.jpg
    Char B tank 75 Mle 1931 case head stamp.jpg
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I am not sure if the Germans made errors, I know the 75x350 case has been used by the French (for WW1 tanks) and the Romanians (for field guns) to be shortened to fit other guns. But I have never seen the case as mentioned in the German documents.

As for the 75x247R, there is a 4th type, the 75 mm Mle 1935 SA and this is the one in the first image of the German manual. I have also never seen a French case of this type. In my collection I have the Mle 1931 and the MDC, where MDC = Mortier de Casemate. I do not know what OEL is for.
 
I did not notice it before, but the German documents also show these cases to have large, threaded primer holes. The 75mm DEC case uses a smaller, press fit primer.
 
I have always been in two minds about the meaning of DEC...I know it is accepted as De Campagne and probably is listed in documents as such as well. However.... Campagne translates as country or countryside. I wonder if DE CHAMPS would be more accurate...champs meaning field. Does anyone have a copy of original French documents ?
 
Subtlety of french language, a word could have different meanings.
"Campagne" could be country but for example also campaign ("une compagne de vaccination").
Other meaning in Artillery : in former wars, different kinds of artillery, "Artillerie de Campagne" (field) and "Artillerie de siège" (position) and others... If you translate "siège" = seat, so nothing to do with the real meaning.
Definition : "L'artillerie de campagne" (The field artillery) is one of the major branches of artillery, which aims to support and support troops on the battlefield. To fulfill this function, its equipment must be mobile and able to follow mobile operations.
 
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Yes, it's a very flexible language and I thank you for your insight. It's something that has had me thinking for a long time and every time I saw one of the cases at foires it all started again.
Stay safe
 
M8owner said:
I was keeping my eyes open for the "75 DEC" head stamp on such cases (75 X 247R) for this gun due to these German documents. However, I just came to the understanding that "DEC" means "de Campagne" or field gun, and that "75 DEC" ammunition can only be for the French Mle 1897 field gun - the famous "French 75" - which, of course, has a much longer case. So, I would like to propose that these German documents are incorrect as to the head stamp markings on the cases. My current understanding is that there are only three head stamps that can be marked on the Char B tank 75mm cases:

1. 75 Mle 1931
2. 75 O.L.E. 31
3. 75 MDC 31

I have found four of the 75 Mle 1931 cases with the help of my BOCN brothers but not the other two. I would love to get the input of our members on this topic.
Click to expand...


Your 3 cases were manufactured by the "Ateliers de Constructions de Rennes" in Brittany, and I think the dates are interesting. the "MDC" one which means Mortier de Casemate was made in 1933, when the B1 tank was just an idea if I am not mistaken, the "OEL" which coud mean "Obusier d'Engin Lourd" (one could translate by "Heavy Vehicle Howitzer") was made in 1934, at this date the B1 was being developed and needed some specific ammunition, and then the last one, which doesn't bear any precision as to the type of gun is dated 1940 when may be it wasn't necessary to distinguish between the 2 types of ammunition. Just an idea, but it wouldn't be the first time the French fitted a fortification gun into a tank, they did it during WW1.
 
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