British Ordnance Collectors Network
This is a sample guest message. Register a free account today to become a member! Once signed in, you'll be able to participate on this site by adding your own topics and posts, as well as connect with other members through your own private inbox!
15 pdr HE projectile
- Thread starter Dronic69
- Start date
Well, there are probably a couple of variations, the UK variation which I'm thinking is a BL powder bag gun, and the U.S. 3 inch 15Pdr, which does use a brass case.
There are a few of the U.S. ones in existence, and the case was used in the seacoast and antiaircraft guns going through WWII, so there are a number of the cases in collections.
Which variation were you referring to?
There are a few of the U.S. ones in existence, and the case was used in the seacoast and antiaircraft guns going through WWII, so there are a number of the cases in collections.
Which variation were you referring to?
ben2000
Well-Known Member
The British 15pdr used a brass case as a cartridge too :tinysmile_twink_t:
Hi John,
The sad thing is I use to have a complete AP round with an unfired projectile and a HE projectile - this photo is from my gallery and the items are on the far right...you can see the matching case with the AP.
Even more sad is that I actually picked up the matching time fuse and the large adapter ring for the HE at the famous London flea market (Camden?) a couple of years after I sold them.......:cry:
That's life!
Thanks
Cheers
Drew
The sad thing is I use to have a complete AP round with an unfired projectile and a HE projectile - this photo is from my gallery and the items are on the far right...you can see the matching case with the AP.
Even more sad is that I actually picked up the matching time fuse and the large adapter ring for the HE at the famous London flea market (Camden?) a couple of years after I sold them.......:cry:
That's life!
Thanks
Cheers
Drew
Attachments
15pdr FG
Howdy Drew,
I think you maybe getting the 15pdr breach loader mixed up with the 15pdr Ehrhart (think thats how its spelt). The 15pr BL was a bag charge gun which is what the proj you have pictured, yes the top & fuse would have matched!
The 15pr Ehrhart was a fixed/semi fixed rnd, I havn't seen any in OZ(not saying they aren't here). Not sure if they were used in the Boar war either, I have seen 15pr BL & 12pr BL mentioned in Boar war references though.
Regards Ozzi.
Howdy Drew,
I think you maybe getting the 15pdr breach loader mixed up with the 15pdr Ehrhart (think thats how its spelt). The 15pr BL was a bag charge gun which is what the proj you have pictured, yes the top & fuse would have matched!
The 15pr Ehrhart was a fixed/semi fixed rnd, I havn't seen any in OZ(not saying they aren't here). Not sure if they were used in the Boar war either, I have seen 15pr BL & 12pr BL mentioned in Boar war references though.
Regards Ozzi.
G'day Ozzi,
OK, so you think that the 15 pdr HE may actually be for the 15 BL not the QF Ehrhart gun? Do you have any detail data on the ammo?
This is a very interesting point as I have seen a number of "15 pdr" HE projectiles complete with fuses and yes the projectile body construction is different, main differences on how the fuse is attached......(perhaps I have also mistaken them in the past for US 3" 15pdr..????)
The wikipedi reference that I referred to above suggest that the ammo may have been the only "common" element between the BL & the QF:
Further implies that the QF was both deployed and used in Africa:
Some wikipedi "snippets":
The Ordnance QF 15 pounder gun, commonly referred to as the Ehrhardt, was a modern German field gun purchased by Britain in 1900 as a stopgap measure to upgrade its field artillery to modern QF standards, while it developed its own alternative. It bore no relation to the British BL 15 pounder other than a common shell..........
Combat service
The first guns were rushed out to South Africa in June 1901 to provide the British field artillery with modern guns to supplement the existing BL 15 pounder and BL 12 pounder, which were being outclassed by the Boers' modern German and French artillery.
CHeers
Drew
15pdr FG
Howdy Drew,
I have seen pics of the 15pdr Ehrhardt, think its in Hoggs Illustrated Encyclopedia of Ammunition.
I havn't got any specific info on it but know it is different to the 15pr BL. Different fuse also on shrap proj.
Good info you found on Wiki maybe the Poms used it in SA, pretty sure the Ozzies only had 12 & 15pdr Bls as I have specimens of both that were used in training for the Boer war in Oz.
The top & fuse you picture are for a shrapnell proj, which you had in the other pic. HE shell would have had an impact fuse not time.
Regards Ozzi.
Howdy Drew,
I have seen pics of the 15pdr Ehrhardt, think its in Hoggs Illustrated Encyclopedia of Ammunition.
I havn't got any specific info on it but know it is different to the 15pr BL. Different fuse also on shrap proj.
Good info you found on Wiki maybe the Poms used it in SA, pretty sure the Ozzies only had 12 & 15pdr Bls as I have specimens of both that were used in training for the Boer war in Oz.
The top & fuse you picture are for a shrapnell proj, which you had in the other pic. HE shell would have had an impact fuse not time.
Regards Ozzi.
Last edited:
Mr Ozzi,
Hummmm, Hummmm, Hummm...........
Yep, a shrapnel shell normally uses a time and the HE an impact fuse.
Interesting enough, the No 56 fuse was both a combined Time and Percussion (impact) fuse, which later become the No65 more commonly deployed in WW1 (...so did they use the percussion function as a primary mechanism for HE - ( (tuned the timer for the max?) and as a secondary function when used on shrapnel, incase the time failed - it certainly didn't have say the US Sweet's selection mechanism............)
Do you know which impact fuse was typically used for the HE?
(I'll need to go and do some more research on this.......)
Also apart from the internal differences between a shrapnel and HE projectile, were the external dimensions and appearance the same? ie same fuse adaptors?
>>> Perhaps my HE was in fact a shrapnel, painted the wrong way (I did have an 18 pdr projectile done that way) <<<
Check out this beauty:
http://www.angloboerwarmuseum.com/Boer20c_techofwar.html
Is it a BL or QF projectile???
Interested in a pic or two of your 12 & 15pdr BLs - will PM you.
Thanks
Cheers
Drew
BTW - Why do I have a funny suspicion that these now may be in your collection????
Last edited:
Pete,
I thought this thread was focused around the 2nd Boer War period 15 pdr ?
A wee bit early to think about shooting at non-existence planes..(LOL)
{perhaps balloons??}
Later on - yes! and much later proximity fuses
:tinysmile_tongue_t:
Cheers
Drew
15pr QF
Afraid I'm going to make a popular comment of mine 'try the search facility' as Falcon and I and others have put some info and photos on the erhardt round on before. Yes it was not used against planes even in service at the start of WWI. No it did not have an HE shell in the Boer war and probably didn't in WWI. Shrapnell was the usual service shell, time and percussion fuzed like virtually all shrapnell, one was on an auction site recently. Early shell and fuze were German manufacture but by 1901 VSM were making cases. Hogg states when initial supply of shells used then the 15pr BL shell were used and these could have included HE. BL shrapnell are fuzed 65A or similar very different to the early fuzes which resemble no.80. 2pr
Afraid I'm going to make a popular comment of mine 'try the search facility' as Falcon and I and others have put some info and photos on the erhardt round on before. Yes it was not used against planes even in service at the start of WWI. No it did not have an HE shell in the Boer war and probably didn't in WWI. Shrapnell was the usual service shell, time and percussion fuzed like virtually all shrapnell, one was on an auction site recently. Early shell and fuze were German manufacture but by 1901 VSM were making cases. Hogg states when initial supply of shells used then the 15pr BL shell were used and these could have included HE. BL shrapnell are fuzed 65A or similar very different to the early fuzes which resemble no.80. 2pr
Hi 2pr,
Thanks for the reminder re the "search facility" which I will go and happy explore again.
............but the initial reason behind starting this thread was to gauge how "common" these projectiles and rounds are today and associated pricing, which sadly no indication has been received!
However you have clarify my query on the shrapnel vs HE usage - thank you.
Cheers
Drew
Thanks for the reminder re the "search facility" which I will go and happy explore again.
............but the initial reason behind starting this thread was to gauge how "common" these projectiles and rounds are today and associated pricing, which sadly no indication has been received!
However you have clarify my query on the shrapnel vs HE usage - thank you.
Cheers
Drew
15pdr FG
Guys,
Point taken in respect to HE fusing.
Thanks for the info.
The 15prBL is relatively common here in Australia as the early Arty Units used them so the projectiles do turn up. The Ehrhardt is a different kettle of fish, I havn't seen one here at all, either cart case or proj.
The 15pr BL shrapnell projectiles depending on cond. I have seen go from $80-$230 again depends who wants it & what someone wants to pay.
12pdr BL are a bit scarcer than the 15pdrs, I'd say around the $120-$200 again depending on cond. All unfired stuff probably would go for higher price.
Drew, do you want to buy yours back again? LOL.
Ozzi.
Guys,
Point taken in respect to HE fusing.
Thanks for the info.
The 15prBL is relatively common here in Australia as the early Arty Units used them so the projectiles do turn up. The Ehrhardt is a different kettle of fish, I havn't seen one here at all, either cart case or proj.
The 15pr BL shrapnell projectiles depending on cond. I have seen go from $80-$230 again depends who wants it & what someone wants to pay.
12pdr BL are a bit scarcer than the 15pdrs, I'd say around the $120-$200 again depending on cond. All unfired stuff probably would go for higher price.
Drew, do you want to buy yours back again? LOL.
Ozzi.
Look on the bottom!
Hi 2-Pdr,
Easiest way to tell them apart is to look on the base, as they should be clearly stamped with with their weight or calibre, and mark number, and also with the maker's mark, and the material from which they are made.
As far as value is concerned, I saw a fired 15-pdr shrapnel shell for sale at a recent militaria fair for 120 (he didn't sell it), which is twice what I paid for one from a very knowledgeable person on this site!
Roger
Hi 2-Pdr,
Easiest way to tell them apart is to look on the base, as they should be clearly stamped with with their weight or calibre, and mark number, and also with the maker's mark, and the material from which they are made.
As far as value is concerned, I saw a fired 15-pdr shrapnel shell for sale at a recent militaria fair for 120 (he didn't sell it), which is twice what I paid for one from a very knowledgeable person on this site!
Roger