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German aircraft rounds

I am doing some research on a gun that was used in a war in Africa. Supposedly, it was bought from the Portuguese who had bought a few from the French around in the 1960's or even the 1970's.

Now, what the guns in question were from German fighter's and in 20mm caliber. They were then used as a mobile 20mm guns to be used against people and light trucks and other fighters during WWII. That is all I have so far. My apologies to all for not giving more information about it. One last question to all of the 20mm shown on this thread. Is all of the 20mm rounds shown here from German fighters? Oh yes, were the guns small enough to fit into a helicopter that was the size of a Huey?


Thank you
 
Hi V40,
yes all the 20mm on here are from German fighters,not sure about the cannon size though

Tony
 
The weapon you are talking about is the Mauser MG151/20mm. This was originally used as a fighter gun by the Luftwaffe and after the war was adopted by the French.

South Africa also used them in their various bush wars and then developed a series of new weapons in that calibre, including an anti-materiel rifle. South Africa continues to make a full range of ammunition in this calibre which is easily identified by its black steel cases.

Search the Forum and there is plenty of info.

This link answers your questions about helicopters and shows the ammo.
http://saairforce.co.za/the-airforce/weapons/42/ga-1-20mm-cannon

This one shows the rifle.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LHq6wi0jlnY

Regards
TonyE
 
The MG151 cannon was developed pre war by Mauser as a 15mm weapon. In the 2cm MG151/20 the case was simply "necked out" while maintaining the overall cartridge length. A reduction in muzzle velocity was deemed an acceptable trade off for the far better destructive power on target.
 
Yes, we were aware of that. The nomenclature of MG151 indicates that it was originally a 15mm weapon.

Regards
TonyE
 
Hi Hairbarebunch,
Many thanks for the added info and showing a sectioned version of that round, i will have to keep my eyes open for one of those. I was unaware of the Schrage Musik and have since spent some time researching it, very interesting indeed.
Best Weasel.
 
Tony,

Thanks, that is exactly what I was looking for. Although the country involved was Rhodesia. They placed their cannon on the right side looking from the front. The helicopters used were the French Alouettte III's also known as the "K-Car". Was the cannon(correct terminology?) very effective for ground targets such as Terrs in the open and bunkers? I am trying to get a feeling for the round(s) and the cannon both. Which by the way I have not yet watched those movies. Now, I see that they fitted a few Hispano 20mm guns on the K-Cars too. Does this make a world of difference betwen the Hispano and the German guns? My apologies Tony for asking so many questions on this subject. Please for give me.

Sincerely,
 
I really cannot say how effective these were when used from helicopters against ground targets. I doubt if there was much effective difference betweena 20mm Mauser and a 20mm Hispano when used in this role. Either would be considerably more damaging than say a .50 cal. when used against buildings, but out in the open I would think that hit probability was quite low. I know the country quite well and it is quite difficult to see targets in the thick brush, even from the air.

Sorry I cannot be more helpful,

Regards
TonyE
 
Tony,

How long were you in Rhodesia? The reason why I ask is because right this moment I am reading the book entitled "The Saints" Subtitled "The Rhodesian Light Infantry" By Chris Cocks and Alexanndre Binda. Rhodesia has caught my intentions as far back as 1975.

Mark
 
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TonyE, "Yes, we were aware of that." ??? Who purchance are WE ? You may well be the font of all knowledge and familiar with the MG151/20's use in Schrage Musik but but I would hazard a guess and say not everyone who reads this forum does. Lighten up !
 
The Mauser MG 151/20 is actually still in production in South Africa, as the Vektor GA-1.

In current production the case length has been increased slightly at the neck, it is now 83.5mm instead of 82mm. The ammo is all now percussion primed, whereas in WW2 electric primed versions of the gun and ammo were also made, for use in aircraft which had synchronised guns.
 
At the risk of hijacking the thread with S African as opposed to German ammunition, attached is a photo of the S African version.
This one appears to have started life as a prac version (its stamped prac) but then progressed onto being sprayed up and marked up as the HE version, its done really well, perhaps an official display version?
This one's spare. If anyone is interested please PM me.
All INERT etc.
Dave.
 

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thehairbarebunch said:
TonyE, "Yes, we were aware of that." ??? Who purchance are WE ? You may well be the font of all knowledge and familiar with the MG151/20's use in Schrage Musik but but I would hazard a guess and say not everyone who reads this forum does. Lighten up !
Click to expand...

I might give your comment more weight if it was correct. I did not post anything about Schrage Musik.

What I did post was a response to your post immediately above mine regarding the Mauser MG151. I said "We" because I have sufficient respect for my fellow members on this thread to believe that they know that when I referred to the MG151/20 I was talking about the 20mm version and not the original 15mm one.

As for "lighten up", I have been quite successfull in losing weight recently!

Regards
TonyE
 
V40 said:
Tony,

How long were you in Rhodesia? The reason why I ask is because right this moment I am reading the book entitled "The Saints" Subtitled "The Rhodesian Light Infantry" By Chris Cocks and Alexanndre Binda. Rhodesia has caught my intentions as far back as 1975.

Mark
Click to expand...

Sorry for the delay in answering.

I have never lived in Zimbabwe, but have travelled quite widely there and still have friends there, one who is a retired game warden. I have spent time in the bush so know the sort of terrain and cover that was fought over which was what prompted my comment.

Regards
TonyE
 
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Hi All,
It's been a while since i posted anything in this thread but have just got round to sorting out my 2cm rounds so thought i wouid take a picture or two showing the state of my WW2 German 2cm collection so far. Still plenty more to get but thats all part of the fun of this collecting lark.
13mm & 15mm Group.jpg2cm x 81 RR MGFF Group 1.jpg2cm x 82 MG 151 20 Group 2.jpg

Best regards Weasel.
 
Nice rounds.
Is the 3rd from the right 20/151 a Practice round?

cheers
Bob
 
Hi Bob,
You are quite right it is a practice round, inert filled Minen projectile. Thanks Tony, it's not the fastest growing set but i do like them.
Best regards Weasel.
 
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