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LMG with Cup Discharger
- Thread starter Bonnex
- Start date
TonyE
HONOURED MEMBER RIP
Bren grenade launcher
There was also a WW2 period .303 cartridge for the experimantal Bren Grenade launcher. I have the drawing for the round, but I have not seen a picture of the launcher.
Perhaps an anti-tank grenade of some sort. Will post drawing if anyone interested.
Regards
TonyE
There was also a WW2 period .303 cartridge for the experimantal Bren Grenade launcher. I have the drawing for the round, but I have not seen a picture of the launcher.
Perhaps an anti-tank grenade of some sort. Will post drawing if anyone interested.
Regards
TonyE
LMG Blank
Anything like the attached Tony?
As you will know there was a grenade launching requirement (or at least 'the possibility would be examined') for the 1930's LMG trials. I have a picture of the Madsen grenade which I will post if interest is shown.
Anything like the attached Tony?
As you will know there was a grenade launching requirement (or at least 'the possibility would be examined') for the 1930's LMG trials. I have a picture of the Madsen grenade which I will post if interest is shown.
Attachments
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Hi all.
would a standard cup discharger fit on a Bren that didnt have a modified barrel? I m no expert on the Bren[want one, have the box,] but ime sure it wouldnt fit on the flared flash eliminator if thats what you called it. Must have had some sort of modification.
Andy
would a standard cup discharger fit on a Bren that didnt have a modified barrel? I m no expert on the Bren[want one, have the box,] but ime sure it wouldnt fit on the flared flash eliminator if thats what you called it. Must have had some sort of modification.
Andy
TonyE
HONOURED MEMBER RIP
Bren grenade launcher
Yes Norman.
That is DD/L/7806 I believe, which is dated June 1937. I was actually thinking about the other design DD/L/7806A which has a wooden bullet and is dated January 1938.
On another subject I have just found a drawing for the "Detonating Apparatus" of the No.21 grenade, which is of course a .303 case. It is dated March 1916 and is a Trench Warfare drawing TW796. Do you have it and if not, I will do you a copy.
Regards
Tony
Yes Norman.
That is DD/L/7806 I believe, which is dated June 1937. I was actually thinking about the other design DD/L/7806A which has a wooden bullet and is dated January 1938.
On another subject I have just found a drawing for the "Detonating Apparatus" of the No.21 grenade, which is of course a .303 case. It is dated March 1916 and is a Trench Warfare drawing TW796. Do you have it and if not, I will do you a copy.
Regards
Tony
Tony,
Thanks very much. I don't have the 7806 Dwgs but I do have DD(L)7152 & B which I will send by separate cover (too big for here).
I'm not sure if I have TW796 but will check.
Norman
Thanks very much. I don't have the 7806 Dwgs but I do have DD(L)7152 & B which I will send by separate cover (too big for here).
I'm not sure if I have TW796 but will check.
Norman
Blacker
Tim,
I think you are spot on. Looking at the patent dwg it seems that just the tip was rubber, the rest steel (presumably).
Tim,
I think you are spot on. Looking at the patent dwg it seems that just the tip was rubber, the rest steel (presumably).
Attachments
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TonyE
HONOURED MEMBER RIP
The cup discharger was not unique to the No.1 Mark III rifle (SMLE). The one in the picture would have a fixing clamp shaped to fit the profile of the Bren barrel, just as was the case with the ones made for the P.14 and No.4 rifles.
Regards
TonyE
BONNEX any idea where the picture of the ZGB with grenade launcher came from please ?
Not sure how long the UK toyed with this idea but the South Africans were still conducting experiments with the LMG and grenade launchers in June 1939.For the purpose of the trial, a ZGB barrel was lightened and modified and 1 of 6 ZGB's were reissued from the South African military college to be used.It was noted that the barrel from the ZGB would not be interchangeable with the Brens they now had on issue,so pressume the ZGB was a worthy donor now being obsolete.
Not having the slightest knowlege of grenade launches can someone tell me how much range would be lost if the gas bleed off from the barrel was not modified so as to be non functioning ?
Kevin
Not sure how long the UK toyed with this idea but the South Africans were still conducting experiments with the LMG and grenade launchers in June 1939.For the purpose of the trial, a ZGB barrel was lightened and modified and 1 of 6 ZGB's were reissued from the South African military college to be used.It was noted that the barrel from the ZGB would not be interchangeable with the Brens they now had on issue,so pressume the ZGB was a worthy donor now being obsolete.
Not having the slightest knowlege of grenade launches can someone tell me how much range would be lost if the gas bleed off from the barrel was not modified so as to be non functioning ?
Kevin
TonyE
HONOURED MEMBER RIP
Bren
No Spotter, there was an official requirement for the LMG to be capable of grenade launching when the trials were going on in the 1930s. The DD/L/ drawing numbers that I mentioned in my previous post to Bonnex are actually titled as Bren grenade discharger blanks.
Kevin - interesting connection to the South African trials. Do you know if they developed a specific discharger cartridge? I would guess that the range of the grenade would depend whether it was an anti-tank grenade or anti-personnel.
Regards
TonyE
No Spotter, there was an official requirement for the LMG to be capable of grenade launching when the trials were going on in the 1930s. The DD/L/ drawing numbers that I mentioned in my previous post to Bonnex are actually titled as Bren grenade discharger blanks.
Kevin - interesting connection to the South African trials. Do you know if they developed a specific discharger cartridge? I would guess that the range of the grenade would depend whether it was an anti-tank grenade or anti-personnel.
Regards
TonyE
ZB Launcher
Kevin,
It came from Herb Woodend. Herb was the custodian of the MoD's Pattern Room of Small Arms at Enfield (and later at Nottingham). I assumed it was something to do with the 1931 LMG trials and that this was a ZB27 in 7.9 but the gun side is not my field.
Norman
Kevin,
It came from Herb Woodend. Herb was the custodian of the MoD's Pattern Room of Small Arms at Enfield (and later at Nottingham). I assumed it was something to do with the 1931 LMG trials and that this was a ZB27 in 7.9 but the gun side is not my field.
Norman
TonyE - unfortunatly I only have a copy of a letter commenting on minutes of a meeting that discussed the matter of a Bren 'rifle grenade' trial.
I don't have any technical details or info as to how the trial concluded......but I'm working on it !
ZGB in pic is .303, but even though the picture is staged the could have at least put a magazine on the gun to give the impression it was ready to fire !
Thanks for the info Bonnex,I must have missed this picture at the PR. Very pleased to see it here !
Kevin
I don't have any technical details or info as to how the trial concluded......but I'm working on it !
ZGB in pic is .303, but even though the picture is staged the could have at least put a magazine on the gun to give the impression it was ready to fire !
Thanks for the info Bonnex,I must have missed this picture at the PR. Very pleased to see it here !
Kevin
Kevin,
The picture came from Herb's personal collection rather than from the PR and it was the only one that he gave me on this subject. The 1931 LMG trials (and the later trials covering 20mm) are documented in the Small Arms Committee Minutes for the period. Unfortunately the grenade firing 'nice to have' didn't seem to occupy much effort. I have not studied this area much but the fact that grenade cartridges for the Bren were made in 1937 suggests some maintained interest.
The picture came from Herb's personal collection rather than from the PR and it was the only one that he gave me on this subject. The 1931 LMG trials (and the later trials covering 20mm) are documented in the Small Arms Committee Minutes for the period. Unfortunately the grenade firing 'nice to have' didn't seem to occupy much effort. I have not studied this area much but the fact that grenade cartridges for the Bren were made in 1937 suggests some maintained interest.
Wood bullet .303 grenade blank
TonyE, very interesting to hear that there was a proposed wood-bulleted grenade blank in .303" calibre in the 1930s. Peter Labbett mentions one made in 1940 in his book on the .303, and shows a picture of the brass mock-bulleted one. Did the wood-bulleted one resemble the LVII blank? What would the h/s have been, and have you ever seen one?
Roger.
TonyE, very interesting to hear that there was a proposed wood-bulleted grenade blank in .303" calibre in the 1930s. Peter Labbett mentions one made in 1940 in his book on the .303, and shows a picture of the brass mock-bulleted one. Did the wood-bulleted one resemble the LVII blank? What would the h/s have been, and have you ever seen one?
Roger.