MK II Grenade markings

[jvollenberg]

I been asked about the MK II grenade and having the markings RF stamped into it. I don't have the pictures of it ... but am curious, what does the RF stand for? And does anyone have a picture of the full greande with this stamping?

The question came from someone with a piece of frag with that stamping in it.

Joe

 

[dano1917]

If it was a frag piece could have been RFX (Richmond Foundry)..Just a guess...Dano

 

[jvollenberg]

Thats what was missing. I knew I had seen it before, but in my mind it was missing something. The X ...

Thanks,

Joe

 

[Grenademan2005]

But it is a complet body or just a fragment?

 

[jvollenberg]

It was just a fragment with the RF on it.

Joe

 

[Grenademan2005]

It is supposed that the RFX grenades were used only for practice with a small charge of powder for do a small smoke cloud, but not for explode. Any paint on the fragment?

 

[jvollenberg]

no ... it was all rust

 

[Grenademan2005]

I dont know others, but I have never seen an HE RFX body. Just the M21 practice.

 

[dano1917]

The Richmond Foundry (RFX) as Miguel stated were practice or low order explosive. I have seen RFX MKII's with a solid bottom (not filled by shysters). Their castings are marginal at best. The Richmond Foundry as most of you already know make the "surplus circuit" junko dummies, but did also make official low order explosive and practice grenades for the U.S. Government. If I am at all errant here, please by all means someone jump in, but this is what I have learned through "oral history". I am by no means knocking the "legitmate" RFX castings as they have their niche carved in history, just stating what I think to be true....Dano
P.S. I am of the opinion that the RFX cast practice lemon grenades are among the coolest grenades of all time....DK

 

[Eodtek]

I dont know others, but I have never seen an HE RFX body. Just the M21 practice.

I have multiple HE bodies with RFX stamped in them. I asked a question about the Richmond Foundry markings a few months ago and posted the pictures of a full bottom HE casting here http://www.bocn.co.uk/vbforum/rfx-richmond-foundry-t71633.html

 

[Eodtek]

The Richmond Foundry (RFX) as Miguel stated were practice or low order explosive. I have seen RFX MKII's with a solid bottom (not filled by shysters). Their castings are marginal at best. The Richmond Foundry as most of you already know make the "surplus circuit" junko dummies, but did also make official low order explosive and practice grenades for the U.S. Government. If I am at all errant here, please by all means someone jump in, but this is what I have learned through "oral history". I am by no means knocking the "legitmate" RFX castings as they have their niche carved in history, just stating what I think to be true....Dano
P.S. I am of the opinion that the RFX cast practice lemon grenades are among the coolest grenades of all time....DK

The Richmond Foundry has been out of business since the 1970's and does not make the "surplus circuit" bodies that are floating around. Many of them are made from a foundry in GA (I'm working on getting the info from the PD that tracked it down from an old criminal case).

The Richmond Foundry cast both practice bodies and HE bodies as both have been found with their markings.

 

[dano1917]

The Richmond Foundry has been out of business since the 1970's and does not make the "surplus circuit" bodies that are floating around. Many of them are made from a foundry in GA (I'm working on getting the info from the PD that tracked it down from an old criminal case).

The Richmond Foundry cast both practice bodies and HE bodies as both have been found with their markings.

I would venture to guess that the GA foundry somehow acquired the Richmond Foundry molds? I knew I had seen the RFX MKII body with the factory solid body so an HE version makes complete sense. This is how I learn by pieceing together the bits of information collected over the years. I personally like the real (HE or practice) RFX bodies as the stamping kind of stands out. I do not like the "surplus circuit" crap that many novice collectors get stung on their first time around (thank God that they are not expensive). I myself bought the circuit 3 some years ago. A valuable 24.00 lesson in my book. Would appreciate any additional information you may know/find out about GA factory and origin of their molds. Attached is a picture of one of my RFX MKII's. It don't look bad but I assume it is a surplus circuit special with the M228 fuze.....Dano

 

[Grenademan2005]

I have multiple HE bodies with RFX stamped in them. I asked a question about the Richmond Foundry markings a few months ago and posted the pictures of a full bottom HE casting here http://www.bocn.co.uk/vbforum/rfx-richmond-foundry-t71633.html

Hey:
I have checked the old thread, Steve says that RFX bodies are all post WWII, but yours have an M10 series fuze on it, maybe one from stock? Because after WWII the M10 fuzes were fast replaced by the M204 series. So, those HE RFX bodies where saw action? Korea?

 

[Eodtek]

I would venture to guess that the GA foundry somehow acquired the Richmond Foundry molds?

From what I have been able to tell, no. One of the many things that I have been trying to correlate is the size of the bodies that I have. I have measured M21 bodies and novelty bodies and from what I can tell, the novelty or surplus bodies are anywhere from 2-6mm larger than known M21 bodies.

This would lead me to believe that they took an actual M21 body and made an overcast of it to create a new casting board. This would make the "new" bodies larger depending on the thickness of the mold casting.

Hey:
I have checked the old thread, Steve says that RFX bodies are all post WWII, but yours have an M10 series fuze on it, maybe one from stock? Because after WWII the M10 fuzes were fast replaced by the M204 series. So, those HE RFX bodies where saw action? Korea?

I don't think anyone has been able to say with 100% confidence that the RFX grenades are post WWII. The only way to do that would be to find the original contract specifications or a notification from the Ordnance Committee. As for the fuze on the grenade I show, there is also no way to say if that is the fuze that originally came with it.

 

[dano1917]

A body overcast mold makes good sense, and would explain the general "crappier" appearance of the surplus specials. I have googled from here to kingdom come trying to find production dates and figures for the Richmond Foundry but come up dry. I had been of the school of thought that the RFX MKII's appearead around the Korean War era, but not based on fact just on information heard from other collectors so it is probably no more than an opinion(s). That would be an interesting tell tale piece of information. It has to be recorded somewhere......Dano

 

[Kilroy was Here]

From what I have been able to tell, no. One of the many things that I have been trying to correlate is the size of the bodies that I have. I have measured M21 bodies and novelty bodies and from what I can tell, the novelty or surplus bodies are anywhere from 2-6mm larger than known M21 bodies.

This would lead me to believe that they took an actual M21 body and made an overcast of it to create a new casting board. This would make the "new" bodies larger depending on the thickness of the mold casting.

I don't think anyone has been able to say with 100% confidence that the RFX grenades are post WWII. The only way to do that would be to find the original contract specifications or a notification from the Ordnance Committee. As for the fuze on the grenade I show, there is also no way to say if that is the fuze that originally came with it.

I thought that in a different "RFX thread" than the one you have noted here (http://www.bocn.co.uk/vbforum/rfx-ri...ry-t71633.html)
I had asked you if a "M10 type" fuze with the smaller 9/16 thread size would screw properly into this RFX solid bottom you showed, and you said that M10 9/16 size "did not" fit properly?? and that the larger "M228 type" sized threads fit this RFX body?

I still believe that RFX never made any grenade bodies HE or practice "during" WW2.

 

[Eodtek]

I thought that in a different "RFX thread" than the one you have noted here (http://www.bocn.co.uk/vbforum/rfx-ri...ry-t71633.html)
I had asked you if a "M10 type" fuze with the smaller 9/16 thread size would screw properly into this RFX solid bottom you showed, and you said that M10 9/16 size "did not" fit properly?? and that the larger "M228 type" sized threads fit this RFX body?

I still believe that RFX never made any grenade bodies HE or practice "during" WW2.

No, the body shown in my photos will not accept the M228 or M213 fuze.

 

[sgtlynn]

The Richmond Foundry as most of you already know make the "surplus circuit" junko dummies, but did also make official low order explosive and practice grenades for the U.S. Government

I know that the surplus Circuit junko dummies are all marked with RFX, but I doubt that Richmond foundary actually makes them. I suspect its on there simply because they were initially cast from a real one. If Richmond foundary made them, I would expect them to be much better than they are, after all, they probably still have the proper molds.

 

[sgtlynn]

Maybe I should read the entire post before replying........

 

[Slick]

Speaking of MkII frag pieces, I'll look closely tomorrow to see if any markings are visible on any of the pieces. These bits were apparently training range pick-ups. I'd say these fragments were the result of high order detonations. The only ones I've ever seen, tho, so it's all just a guess.
Will the evidence of an RFX casting "code"(or lack thereof) prove anything?

Rick