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Police raid collector ?

SpudGun

Well-Known Member
Could this just be a collector ? BOCN member ?

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...siles-seized-police-Worcester-house-raid.html

Police have seized an arsenal of weapons including more than 30 guns, as well as rocket launchers, missiles, grenades and ammunition from a house in Worcester.
The Army and bomb squad were called in to help safely remove potentially dangerous munitions from the property.

A man has been arrested on suspicion of possession of an illegal firearm at a semi-detached home.


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Dangerous: An array of weapons including rockets, shells and grenades were removed from the property by police, army and bomb disposal unit

Witnesses said more than 30 guns, including rifles and shotguns, and a gun cabinet were removed from the house.
Police arrived at the property followed by forensics and the bomb disposal unit.
The guns were placed in green bags and stowed in a metal trailer parked outside the house before they were towed away by a white van.
Rockets, shells, rocket launchers, grenades and ammunition were seen being bagged up outside the house.
At the peak of the incident there were about 15 officers involved and nine police vehicles, including marked and unmarked cars and vans.
Neighbours gathered in their gardens in the quiet street to watch the drama unfold.


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A 65-year-old man has been arrested on suspicion of possession of an illegal firearm after munitions were removed from the semi-detached house. 15 officers and nine police vehicles were involved in the incident which saw rockets, shells and rocket launchers, being bagged up and taken away



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One unnamed woman said: 'I was shocked at the amount of guns in a semi-detached house in a quiet estate.'
A man, who also declined to be identified, said: 'We are shocked and surprised. It's a quiet residential street. Nothing like this happens. I was shocked by how many guns I was seeing coming out the door. There was a whole arsenal of weapons. I have lived here about 40 years and I have never seen anything like it.'
A neighbour, who also did not want to be identified, believed the man arrested was involved in a historical re-enactment group.
She said: 'He built the garage to store a cannon, but he had a licence for that. He's a decent bloke, a very polite and very nice neighbour.'
West Mercia Police said officers executed a warrant yesterday, and after searching the house called in the bomb disposal team as a precaution.

A 65-year-old man was last night in custody.
Inspector John McKay said at the scene: 'One person has been arrested on suspicion of possession of an illegal firearm. As a result of that we're carrying out a search of the house. I'm not going to elaborate on the investigation because it's still at an early stage.
'During our search we discovered some munitions. We asked the Army to come in and keep them safe for us.

'The only reason the Army has been called is because they have the experts to handle the munitions. I'm not qualified to say what the munitions are.'
Insp McKay declined to confirm how many guns and other weapons had been seized.






 
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This is worrying. 'SUSPICION of possession of an illegal firearm.' Seems like a neighbour saw something and jumped to the wrong conclusion, thus causing a waste of police/army time and unnecessary trouble for an innocent collector. I hope he gets his stuff returned to him.
 
As they were looking for an illegal firearm why are they taking inert shells away ?

This is because the law says they can, I was involved in an incident with a Gun shop owner that the police suspected was not complying with the requirements of his License. They siezed everything from his shop and it was placed in one of our mag's for safe keeping as the police had nowhere big or secure enough to hold it. They even took all the scrap he had, he and his solicitor where not impressed that they could not have access without one of the case officers being present. I think this was an extreme case and happened several years ago.

The police officer on the beat and most the there firearms units are not qualified to distinguish between legal and illegal ordnance so will take everything and then get an expert to sort it out.

There is a good chance the Courts will order everything to be destroyed and he will lose everything if it is proved that he had a illegal weapon.

Richard
 
This is because the law says they can, I was involved in an incident with a Gun shop owner that the police suspected was not complying with the requirements of his License. They siezed everything from his shop and it was placed in one of our mag's for safe keeping as the police had nowhere big or secure enough to hold it. They even took all the scrap he had, he and his solicitor where not impressed that they could not have access without one of the case officers being present. I think this was an extreme case and happened several years ago.

The police officer on the beat and most the there firearms units are not qualified to distinguish between legal and illegal ordnance so will take everything and then get an expert to sort it out.

There is a good chance the Courts will order everything to be destroyed and he will lose everything if it is proved that he had a illegal weapon.

Richard

Thanks for that.

I must be a bit thick as I don't understand why legal items would/can be destroyed along with illegal items.
 
Thanks for that.

I must be a bit thick as I don't understand why legal items would/can be destroyed along with illegal items.

This is because we have a very anti Gun/ordnance legal system these days. Hopefully this is some sort of cock-up/misunderstanding and the gent will get it all back. But the Courts may or may not if it goes to them and he is found guilty order all or part to be destroyed and withdraw his FAC if he has one, which will be another headache for him.

There are several threads on this site regarding collector's and the Law and there are some real horror stories out there. You only have to look at the way this was reported along with the pictures used to see the bias against the collector and the events up north a few weeks ago will not help the cause.

Richard
 
The way these things are being handled (casually carried down the street on a Police Officers Shoulder to a waiting van) doesn't look to me like they are being treated all that seriously, the newspaper makes it sounds like the whole house was about to go up! Wouldn't mind betting these shells turn out to be empty, but I guess they have to act on a report to be on the safe side, I just hope that if this does all turn out to be an over reaction that they at least clear the poor chaps name and return his items without damage. The problem is these kinds of stories make the news and people rarely get to hear the outcome.

Just my thoughts.
 
This is because we have a very anti Gun/ordnance legal system these days. Hopefully this is some sort of cock-up/misunderstanding and the gent will get it all back. But the Courts may or may not if it goes to them and he is found guilty order all or part to be destroyed and withdraw his FAC if he has one, which will be another headache for him.

There are several threads on this site regarding collector's and the Law and there are some real horror stories out there. You only have to look at the way this was reported along with the pictures used to see the bias against the collector and the events up north a few weeks ago will not help the cause.

Richard

Once again thanks.

The shells being carried don't appear to have fuzes fitted and you can see by the marks on the driving bands that they have been fired added to the fact that it's the rozzers carrying the shells, I'd bet that they already know that they are inert and therefore legal.
 
I have been spotted a couple of times over the years carrying mortars etc from my garage to my house or vice versa and thought, I'm gonna get nicked tonight. I think that every collector isn't really bothered about getting nicked as we all know that when they have been examined by the correct departments, they will come back legal and therefor you cannot be charged and it's alll NFA'd, but, there are horror stories out there when the entire collection has been found to be legal, but destroyed none the less! Fair enough you can get a solicitor and get some cash out of it, but your entire collection has gone forever!!!!
I heard that someone who had had there collection taken, all legit, was charged for something, the judge had said that he had had the appropriate knowledge to reactivat the ordnance if he wished and therefore authorised their disposal. Outragious
 
!!!

That is really infuriating!! How can they be allowed to confiscate and possibly destroy his collection of inert shells?
To me an inert shell/bullet etc or a deactivated weapon is no longer such and is therefore just an inanimate (sp?) object?
Yes if he breached his firearms licence for having something he shouldn't , that something should be conficated along with any other live firearms, and have his licence revoked if found guilty in a court of law. He shouldn't have inert shells etc confiscated too, they're nothing to do with his licence and they wouldn't confiscate his tv or sofa etc so why touch the shells?!!
 
You would be talking about common sense, unfortunately common sense and the law don't all ways go hand in hand.

Richard
 
Re pointblank's message, to true, anything can be "re-activated" for example if you have a good lathe, and a block of metal, then you have a potential lethal weapon :tinysmile_tongue_t: I think whilst the law is there for very good reasons there are a few people in the force who are just looking for some action whilst others have more common sense.
 
i cant see why they dont just take the so called illegal firearm .you no if the go looking for a firearm why are they walking to their vans with dirty great artillery shells .o well as long as he gets it back
 
The way these things are being handled (casually carried down the street on a Police Officers Shoulder to a waiting van) doesn't look to me like they are being treated all that seriously, the newspaper makes it sounds like the whole house was about to go up! Wouldn't mind betting these shells turn out to be empty, but I guess they have to act on a report to be on the safe side, I just hope that if this does all turn out to be an over reaction that they at least clear the poor chaps name and return his items without damage. The problem is these kinds of stories make the news and people rarely get to hear the outcome.

Just my thoughts.

This is a subject that maybe only a handfull of people understand about that are supposed to be paid proffesionals in there job.
The Uk has turned into a very PC place with knee jerk reactions to so much as a( table leg wrapped in a bag).
Basic common sense and a bit of stealth is the best way to collect inert Ammo and the such likes.

There could have been a million reasons why this guy had all his kit confiscated,Revenge nosey neighbours,jilted ex,what ever but the modern
police force does have to act on intilligence (as they call it) in light of recent events and tragic for the collector concerned as he now has to prove himself innocent and give a good accountable reason why he has this large collection.

The press will turn you into a criminal in an instant and public opinion will condem the poor bloke anyway so these days you dont give them an inch by having any naughty items,and dont bring attention to yourself.


My thoughts for what they are worth

Best phil
 
Have to agree there. get on with your neighbours and keep your collection quiet. Need to know kind of stuff. Too many interfering people out there nowadays
 
Have to agree with all the points raised, the Police are there to uphold and maintain the rule of Law. Unfortunately very few Police forces have anyone with an understanding of inert ordnance, even Police firearms units are not trained to deal with inert ordnance. This is why we seem to have such an over reaction to anything found. I don't believe there is the money or a willingness to train officer's due to the few incidents each year especially in view of the reductions in budgets that all forces are being subjected to.
 
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I question why untrained police officers are handling live ordnance? Until the individual items have been checked by someone competent then the items shoud be considered live. Someone involved in the raid must have said "take that item" If that person was untrained in ordnance or EOD procedures he is in breach of his own authority and if it was an expert then judging by the manner in which the items are being handled then they know the items are safe. The officer in the picture with the round over his shoulder just needs to drop it on its fuze!.....
 
UK Inert Ordnamce Permits and Licenses??

Hi All,
I'm curious as to what permits/licenses etc are required to collect inert ordnance in the UK?

Also are they "universal" or differ between the regions?

For example, here in Australia, the laws vary greater depending in which state you live:

NSW:
1) Prohibited Weapons Permits required from the NSW Police for bombs / grenades/ rockets and mortar related items; +
2) Member of a recognized Military Collecting club
3) Ammunition Collector's permit for artillery / bullet related items, live up to 20mm, inert for larger calibres (although I can never seem to get a constant answer from Firearms Registry....)

Old:
1) Permit from the "Dept of Energy & Mines"
2) Member of the ACCA (not sure if this is mandatory or of a similar Collecting Body)

Vic:
None required!!
Yet they require a license/permit to collect Japanese Swords!!! (In NSW we don't!)

Thanks
Cheers
Drew

BTW - and in the theme of this thread - Yes the local authorities certainly do not have the expertise to identify Ordnance or related weapons - I remember the local police inspecting a 3.5" rocket launcher I once had.....one of them asking me where the "firing pin" is!!!!
 
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