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Price of an 88mm???

Zt.Z. is for AA- or other air burst use. AZ is against ground targets, however not against tanks which need an AP-projectile.
 
As far as I understand an ordinary HE-shell with instaneous percussion fuze does not have much effect against armored targets ( tanks ).
Ofcource shaped HE-charges ( HL ) are totally different but I can't recall from my poor memory that such ones were loaded for 88 Flak.
 
Yes, totally right. all these cases have a crack in the neck, and are unused (no crimping marks).
 
Some years ago I saw near 100 of these at a seller's warehouse. They all were cracked in neck some less some more. I think it must be something in the brass structure.
I tried to repair one, first heated the neck to red hot with torch to get it soft, then fixed the crack with silver solder, gently pressed a projectile on it's place and the neck cracked again next to the repair.
 
I think these cases were not finished in the proces. maybe cold forged, without getting the hardning proces of tempering the metal by needed heat treatment.
 
Hey all,

The cracks in the neck of the 8,8 cm FlaK 41 are a common phenomenon (better yet, it would be rare to find one without the telltale crack).

The cracks were caused by extraction problems with the "41" case, The case swelling up during firing due to heat and pressure, and being torn when extracted.

These problems were even more severe with the steel "41" case, this is why these are far more rare and the cases that are usually found are made off brass, even of as late a date of manufacture as late 1944 when brass was very scarce.

And, Tmine35, there was indeed a HL loading for the 8,8 cm FlaK 18/37/ KwK 36. (not sure though iff this also existed for the FlaK 41 and KwK/ PaK 43).

greetz,

Menno.
 
thekees said:
I think these cases were not finished in the proces. maybe cold forged, without getting the hardning proces of tempering the metal by needed heat treatment.
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The case in eGun has an WaA acceptance stamp. If the stamp is not a fake (picture is to small to see it exactly), it is a fully finished case.
 
These cases didnt have ever any projectile installed, look at the missing crimps. I have several FLAK 41 cases, the onliest one with cracks are always these without crimps.

The retracting problem was due to the shape of the chamber, in combination of the high pressure, cracks weren't the problem due to that, but expanded necks, the retracting problem was more a problem with steel cases then the brass ones.
 
You have several cases.... hummm very interesting.... :nerd: Then what I can understand is that used/fired cases with crimps are not cracked and maybe not loaded cases have the cracks. It could be that the crack happened while reusing the case for a new projectile? While retooling the neck for get it plane again for recrimp, I hope you can understand what Im trying to say. This thread is becoming very interesting Guys!
 
Is there a possibillity that the crimps were lost due to the high pressure in the chamber. Due to the shot the neck will form itself to the shape of the chamber and the crimps will be lost?

regards

DM
 
Dm, i dont think so, both other cases are fired. (steel primer still in) i guess Micheal has the best option, reshaped after been fired, maybe the Finnish army recharged them, and had to roll out the crimp marks, if done incorrect, or without the proper heat proces, it will crack due too stress in the material. Proces should be, heat up, slowly cool down (to make it soft), then rework it, threat it again to relieve the stress put in by reworking, cool down fast, to harden the brass. If stopped halfway the proces, it will crack, if not treated with heat before rework it, it will crack too. This is often seen at soft metals, the same with bending aluminium plates, etc.
 
I have a fired brass case with 2 crimps and no tears (for AP projectile) and 1 fired brass case with 1 crimp and tears and a widened mouth.
 
Are these cracks as in the uncrimped ones? The complete batch found in Finland was withouh crimps, and all cracked. cracks due to impact differ from fatique cracks.
 
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Case fracture in the Flak41 was due to the use of a three piece barrel and sleeve arrangement, the joint between the first and second fell exactly at the case bottle neck. On firing, steel cases had a habit of expanding into this joint and becoming stuck. The use of brass cases reduced (but didn't cure) the problem somewhat. Later, a two section barrel was adopted which again improved matters but the problem was only finally sorted by using a heavier two piece barrel with no sleeve. The original guns were only to be used with brass cases and were marked on the breech.
 
BAT120MM said:
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I'm rather doubtful that the paint and markings on the round on the left are original- I've seen lots of cases and projectiles that have and this stands out as looking very much like a 'restoration'; paint on the driving bands is also not at all normal, nor are the clean steel cases- to my knowledge, steel cases were always brass-plated. Also only dedicated ground use Sprgr. were painted green (KwK and PaK), and I've never seen an 8,8cm that was. These are all the common 'enhanced' splinter shells that I think Finland inherited after the war, and are intended for anti-aircraft use. That's not to say they couldn't be supplied to any unit as needs required, but I can't see them being intentionally painted for tank use.
 
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