uncrimped aden case

[harley]

uncrimped aden case ?

In my collection of empty aden cases ive come across a strange one.its identicle in every perameter to a normal fired case apart from the fact there are only markings in the extractor groove.RG80 no other markings are present and there are no crimp marks at all .I tried to fit a fired and unfired projectile in the case and the do not fit even with a bit of force, is it just an uncrimped case? anyone any ideas please.sorry not very good photos
must get a new camera or opperator



























i

 

[TonyE]

Aden

It looks like it is a new primed(?) empty that has come off the line. The fact that there is no other information other than the RG stamp suggests it never even reached the stage where the load had been decided.

Is the primer present? Is it fired? Unfortunately your pictures are too out of focus to tell much.

Regards
TonyE

 

[harley]

Tony the primer is intact but fired very crudely done looks like some one hit it with a nail and hammer.I take it the reason the projectile wont fit is they make the cases with a slightly smaller ID so they can press fit the projectiles before crimping?

 

[TonyE]

Aden

Yes, they are neck expanded before the proj. is seated and then crimped.

Hitting the primer with anything is not going to do a lot of good, the Aden is electric primed!

Regards
TonyE

 

[harley]

Well in that case tony i guess the primers still live and someone has tried in vein to disable it.I must have had hundreds of aden cases over the years but never come across one like this!

 

[Chris 42 RQ]

Experimental perhaps

Another alternative is that it was an "experimental" loading, ie may not have been loaded with a projectile as you know them.
The fact that all it has is RG 80 could easily be as Tony E states and it never got to the filling station or it could have been removed for spaecil filling and could have ended up with a sabot being fitted for higher velocity of firing strange shapes at targets-cubes balls flechettes and the like all would be loaded into an unmarked case other than the manufacturing plant and date details.

Sorry but cannot add a photo as this facility seems to have dissapeared!

If in any doubt about the primer cndition a good dose of WD 40 down the central primer hole will make it "safer" but not INERT - beware these are very powerful primers and should not be messed with.

 

[harley]

Thanks for the info tonyE and chris, way ahead on the wd40 stakes chris not taking any chances.On having a closer look inside the cas it seems to have been fired chris there is black residue consistent with a fired case i have. Seems to bear out your prognosis

 

[Chris 42 RQ]

Pictures to follow sometime.

When I can post pictures again I will put up some sabots for ADEN round firings.

 

[pointblank0]

Yes, they are neck expanded before the proj. is seated and then crimped.

Hitting the primer with anything is not going to do a lot of good, the Aden is electric primed!

Regards
TonyE

I do appologise for my stupidness. I know how a projectile is fired from its case using a firing pin on to the percussion cap etc. I have heard many people on this site go on about electricaly fired rounds. I have a couple of ADEN rounds with similar looking percussion caps, only bigger, as small arms ammunition. As these sort of things are outside my usual interest, I have no idea and cannot really get my head around this whole electrical firing thing. Can you please explain to me in simple terms what the cycle is for an electric primed round? It is a complete mystery to me.
Many thanks

 

[harley]

pointblanko electic primed rounds were developed due to the high speeds firing of modern cannons the old percussion method would not be able to opperate at these speeds 6000 rounds a min.Instead of a firing pin when the round comes into the firing possition it passes an electrode this fires the primer . Depending on the round or primer 24 to 48v is used. hope this explains it

 

[harley]

Cheers chris that would be great to see actual photos ,dont suppose youve got a spare sabots lol

 

[Chris 42 RQ]

NO Sabots

Sorry Harley the sabots are no longer in my ownership and all I have are the poor photo's of them which at the moment I cannot post for some reason.

 

[harley]

shame ive been collecting on and off for 20 years and never even seen one .Would be nice to see the photos when you sort it out

 

[Tony Williams]

I do appologise for my stupidness. I know how a projectile is fired from its case using a firing pin on to the percussion cap etc. I have heard many people on this site go on about electricaly fired rounds. I have a couple of ADEN rounds with similar looking percussion caps, only bigger, as small arms ammunition. As these sort of things are outside my usual interest, I have no idea and cannot really get my head around this whole electrical firing thing. Can you please explain to me in simple terms what the cycle is for an electric primed round? It is a complete mystery to me.
Many thanks

Electric priming was used from the 19th century in certain types of artillery, but it came into use in automatic cannon in WW2 when the Luftwaffe adopted it for synchronised guns. These were guns fitted to the forward fuselage or wing roots of single-engined fighters, whose shots had to pass between the propeller blades as they spun round. So precise timing of each shot was essential to avoid blowing off a propeller blade, and electric priming was adopted to make this easier. The guns which mainly used it were the 13mm MG 131 and both 15mm and 20mm versions of the MG 151 (percussion-primed versions of the MG 151 were also made for other applications).

The way they worked was that the guns were modified to fire semi-automatic only (one shot at a time). When the pilot pressed the firing button it didn't directly fire the gun, it just sent a message to the synchronising mechanism to fire when ready. When the propeller blades were all out of the way, the synchroniser sent an electrical impulse to an electrode which was pressed against the primer (in place of the usual firing pin), instantly heating and firing the primer. This process was repeated for as long as the pilot kept pressing the firing trigger.

As Harley said electric priming was later adopted for other fast-firing cannon when precise timing of the moment of firing was essential. It is currently used by most (but not all) aircraft cannon and a few AA guns.

You can usually tell which primers are electric rather than percussion because the primer has a concentric ring visible in it, which is made by an insulator separating the "live" (central) bit of the primer from the outer part. Fired electric primers usually still show a dent in the middle, because the electrode is pressed hard against them.

Tony Williams
Military gun and ammunition website: http://www.quarry.nildram.co.uk

 

[navyman]

Hello again,
I don't know if this will help with regard to electric primers but here's a pic of the base of an engine start cartridge which shows the primer and it's insulation ring quite clearly. Ignore the white colour, that's just talcum powder I put there to make the headstamp more clear!
Cheers,
Guy.

 

[Chris 42 RQ]

Here they are !

shame ive been collecting on and off for 20 years and never even seen one .Would be nice to see the photos when you sort it out

Been suffering from "finger problems" what with me being so computer literate and all (technophobic more like) I found I must have inadvertantly closed a box type thingy which did not drop down another bit of menu to allow pics to be added!
These items were locally made up (custom made on site usually) and as you will see one has a .50 cal AP core pushed into it and the other would have had either a tungsten ball or Tungsten cube pressed into the front, these would then be fitted to a plain case (such as yours) with the required amount of propellant and some were crimped and some were just a push fit (tight to say the least) and these were then singly fired from a pressure housing into a "stripper" plate which removed the sabot/carrier and allowed the shot/ball/cube etc to pass through to the target, the sabot would just turn to a very fine powder at these sorts of speeds.

Hope this is what you wanted to see.

 

[harley]

Wow thanks a million chris. what i would give to find one of those one day,rarer than pink rocking horse droppings i should imagine.I take it you abviously worked in the industry? thanks again for the pictures

 

[Chris 42 RQ]

You are welcome

Wow thanks a million chris. what i would give to find one of those one day,rarer than pink rocking horse droppings i should imagine.I take it you abviously worked in the industry? thanks again for the pictures

Youre most welcome Harley.
As for the other question I cannot say :tinysmile_cry_t3:

Sabots were made for all manner of things including proppelling an old penny at ridiculous speeds to find out what happens when ??

A lot of research went into the 1.5 inch Baton rounds as the mark I rubber bullets could be tampered with hence the solid PVC bullet was produced which was considered to be pretty much tamper proof and a lot of that work involved the use of Sabots.

Also making Aircraft windscreens bird strike resistant used enormous Sabots at high speeds with a chicken inside.

A fascinating subject is Sabots.

 

[harley]

As for the other question chris nuf said.fasinating insite into experimental work,You would never imagine such bizar things conected to projectile experimentation,poor chickens lol

 

[Chris 42 RQ]

Unfrozen please!

As for the other question chris nuf said.fasinating insite into experimental work,You would never imagine such bizar things conected to projectile experimentation,poor chickens lol

As for the "poor chickens" Harley dont worry they were from the local Bejam/Iceland store and frozen, the only danger was if someone forgot to let them thaw out before firing

Sadly it did happen on one or two ocassions giving some very interesting results-total and abysmal screen failure=surprise surprise!