Very Unique Smi-35 Have you Seen one?

[Kilroy was Here]

Unique Smi-35 Have you Seen one?

Here is an Smi-35 type that I have not seen before. The mine was included in a box full of German items offered to me a few weeks ago. It is totally complete with all the parts except maybe the sealing cord or rope for the top lid.

What makes this mine strange....to me at least, is that the inner sleeves, or casings are copper plated which I have not seen before. Maybe this is done to protect against corrosion??

The other odd thing is... the top lid to the mine where it would normally have one date and maker (or maker code), this particular mine is marked "twice" with "2 different dates" that are two years apart and two different makers.

There is also a set of three smaller letters..... "fwo" (not listed code) stamped on the top, and a waffenamt stamp, and also what I think are inventory numbers. My other S-mines in my collection also have these type "inventory" numbers stamped on top, so I think they are not really odd.

Across the top of the 1940 date etc, is what appears to be a large "X" scribed or scratched across it, and it does not look recently done to me.

What I maybe think, is that the mine, or just the top lid, was from old parts stock inventory from one company that did not use them all, therefore they were shipped and re-marked at another company "brh" (Schaltbau GmbH, Muenchen) and re-used??

Have any of you collectors out there ever seen one exactly like this? What is your theory on this odd S-mine?

Regards, Steve
"Dr. Ruby"

 

[Tmine35]

I have seen in Finland some S.Mi.35 with copper plated inner parts as well. I think yours is of very early production ( 1940 ) and modified or re-conditioned in 42. I have seen several times in other modified ordnance items original markings crossed over like this.
I can't see the fwo-stamp but depending on font type it could be original maker's logo instead of code. In items made 1940 you often see either logo or code. However code fwo is Westebbe & Weispfennig Eisen- und Stahldrahtwerke, Unna i/Westfalen.

Blasing cap tubes and locking ring for ejecting charge are unusual design.

 

[Kilroy was Here]

I have seen in Finland some S.Mi.35 with copper plated inner parts as well. I think yours is of very early production ( 1940 ) and modified or re-conditioned in 42. I have seen several times in other modified ordnance items original markings crossed over like this.
I can't see the fwo-stamp but depending on font type it could be original maker's logo instead of code. In items made 1940 you often see either logo or code. However code fwo is Westebbe & Weispfennig Eisen- und Stahldrahtwerke, Unna i/Westfalen.

Blasing cap tubes and locking ring for ejecting charge are unusual design.

Hi Tmine, thanks, I could not find the maker "fwo". If you look at the second picture, upper right corner area, you will see the "fwo" marking....

I also noticed the tubes and locking ring design. I guess there are many different types depending on manufacturer.

I thought the Smi-35 was designed and first made around 1935, hence the name Smi-35?? So would this still be an early one?

Regards, Steve

 

[Tmine35]

Now I saw FWO ( my screen is too small ). Written in capital letters it's no code but maker's logo which suits this early date.

I'm not sure when S.Mi.35 was adopted but in German weaponry the number does not always mean year of adoption / start of production - sometimes it does though.

I don't think I ever have seen an earlier date than yours.

 

[sudelmuk]

interesting haul you've made there, Steve!
I think Reino has given the most reasonable explanation for the really unusual combination of markings on the top-plate.
do you know anything about the origin of this particular piece?
it is always a problem to judge a mine without any background, as it might be oddly assorted by someone with separate parts simply to get a 'complete' one!?

slightly under pressure today, will come up with some more about early/late versions soon.

 

[BMG50]

The copper plating is also found on later mines. Other S-mines i have and others i have examined have parts that are of a deep black oxide gloss finish. I recently examine a mint 1940 dated S-mine and most of the parts inside the mine were of this same finish. Would love to see the manufacturing specification document from field reports (if any) to see the change dates and recommendations for copper plating S-mine parts etc.

 

[Kilroy was Here]

Now I saw FWO ( my screen is too small ). Written in capital letters it's no code but maker's logo which suits this early date.

I'm not sure when S.Mi.35 was adopted but in German weaponry the number does not always mean year of adoption / start of production - sometimes it does though.

I don't think I ever have seen an earlier date than yours.

Hi Reino, OK, thanks, I was not sure about the fwo marking. I could find no reference to Westebbe & Weispfennig Eisen- und Stahldrahtwerke, Unna i/Westfalen.

I think I have seen a picture of a S-mine dated 38 before? maybe here on BOCN?? I did not think 1940 was an "Early date" for one of these S-mines.

Regards, Steve

 

[Kilroy was Here]

interesting haul you've made there, Steve!
I think Reino has given the most reasonable explanation for the really unusual combination of markings on the top-plate.
do you know anything about the origin of this particular piece?
it is always a problem to judge a mine without any background, as it might be oddly assorted by someone with separate parts simply to get a 'complete' one!?

slightly under pressure today, will come up with some more about early/late versions soon.

Hi Peter, yes, agreed also on Reino's explanation, This is kind of what I thought from before I even made the post, but I wanted to be be sure on the theory I had come up with for the odd markings.

As far as this S-mine being cobbled together from different pieces of mines by a "collector" or "someone".....I do not think so in slightest, judging from who, and where the mine came from. I feel quite confident it is an original mine and all the parts have been together since it was originally made. Everything fits together perfect and smoothly also.

Thanks Peter, your expertise, and more info will be nice.

Regards, Steve

 

[BMG50]

Hi Reino, OK, thanks, I was not sure about the fwo marking. I could find no reference to Westebbe & Weispfennig Eisen- und Stahldrahtwerke, Unna i/Westfalen.

I think I have seen a picture of a S-mine dated 38 before? maybe here on BOCN?? I did not think 1940 was an "Early date" for one of these S-mines.

Regards, Steve

See next post cocked up with a posting:tinysmile_cry_t3:

 

[BMG50]

Looking closely at the second picture of the top plate its looks as if its stamped brb or brh/ 42. as for early dated S-mines, i myself have see mint 1936-39 dated S-mines that came from Russia found in a bunker. These were for sale (about 100) 15 years ago all in a green finish. Their stampings had an unusual square stamping with letters or numbers inside the square, i think its was a makers stamp. I know i bought one, i wish i bought more. Unfortunately i don't have it now.
I believe there was a lot of mix and matching due to factory problems caused by the war later on, ie bombing of factories and shortages of materials. Not sure if some mines were refurbished or upgraded bearing in mind the propellant and the mines short delay fuzes were black powder based, which can deteriorate in cold damp conditions etc. S-mines didn't last that long in unfavourable conditions which affected their performance even less than 3 months in harsher conditions.

 

[Kilroy was Here]

Looking closely at the second picture of the top plate its looks as if its stamped brb or brh/ 42. as for early dated S-mines, i myself have see mint 1936-39 dated S-mines that came from Russia found in a bunker. These were for sale (about 100) 15 years ago all in a green finish. Their stampings had an unusual square stamping with letters or numbers inside the square, i think its was a makers stamp. I know i bought one, i wish i bought more. Unfortunately i don't have it now.
I believe there was a lot of mix and matching due to factory problems caused by the war later on, ie bombing of factories and shortages of materials. Not sure if some mines were refurbished or upgraded bearing in mind the propellant and the mines short delay fuzes were black powder based, which can deteriorate in cold damp conditions etc. S-mines didn't last that long in unfavourable conditions which affected their performance even less than 3 months in harsher conditions.

Hi, I think it's "brh 42". Interesting theories and info, thanks. Yes, I have thought like you said, that all the early mines would be green, as the tan color did not come along till later in war.

I guess it's hard to say exactly "what, when and where" about this mine, but it is clear that it was remarked on top 2 years after it's initial manufacture. Maybe it was salvaged from a bombed factory like you mentioned. I agree are correct about the explosives "shelf life". I would think if the time was taken to remark and stamp it, then it was refurbished with new charges also.

Regards, Steve

 

[Tmine35]

brb is quite typical maker's code for S.Mi.35 or S.Mi.44.

 

[Grenademan2005]

I cant add more here because all is already exposed or explained, (totally right and very well), for some of the German Mine experts I know, just confirm that maker mark is brb, nor brh. brb, earlier our friend Richard Rinker RR code, is one of the most productive makers from the German War Industry, you can find him everywhere on ordnance items, grenades, mines, fuzes, etc.

 

[sudelmuk]

made a sweep through my sources to get some info about manufacturing numbers of the S.Mi.35. but sources are few and incomplete, therefore I found only some fragments.

developed since 1935, both S.Mi.35 and S.Mi.35 (b) have been introduced delayed in 1938, the first 1000 pieces delivered in August.
70660 were manufactured in December 38, 26465 in January 39 and until September 1939 a total of 706000 pieces was on stock.

to gain an impression of the frequency of S.Mi.35 in the several manufacturing years, one could have a look at the production numbers of all German landmines together:

1939 - 0.533 (million)
1940 - 1.304
1941 - 0.949
1942 - 6.694
1943 - 18.830
1944 - 43.676
1945 - 1.808

as the S.Mi.35 numbers presumably developed in proportion, everyone may make his own conclusions about the rare occurence of the single vintages.

sole exception is 1945, I think. theoretically replaced with the S.Mi.44, the 35er was definitely a discontinued model, numbers must have been very low amongst all other metal free- and auxiliary mines manufactured then.
so the 45er-vintage may be the most rare one !?

(sources: Waffen-Revue & Deutsche Landminen 1935-45 by Wolfgang Fleischer)

 

[Grenademan2005]

At 1944 Germans produced 43 Million of S35? :tinysmile_eyebrow_t

 

[sudelmuk]

At 1944 Germans produced 43 Million of S35? :tinysmile_eyebrow_t

all sorts of landmines together, old friend ! :tinysmile_hmm_t:

 

[Kilroy was Here]

Thank's everyone! The information and opinions on the mine I posted, and the detailed S-mine production history, facts etc. are much appreciated :congrats:

Peter, I agree, I think the 1945 date must be the most rare. Also the pic of the 45 date mine you have shown is the first I have ever seen, it's great for research and reference, thanks.

So seems everyone is in agreement the mine I show is "brb" not "brh"

I have looked at the stamping very close, and it still looks like "brh" to me. I know that a "b" with the bottom would look like an "h"....but I can see no evidence that it was a light strike, and the other letters are deeply struck. Maybe the stamp could have been broken? and missing the bottom of that one "b" ??

"brh" is Schaltbau GmbH, Muenchen, is everyone sure the mine is not from this company?

Did "brh" even have anything to do with S-mines?

I think I have seen M24 grenades with this "brh" marking before?

Regards, Steve

 

[Tmine35]

Can you confirm what is WaffenAmt-number in your S.Mi.35? It is in connection with maker's code and they may verify each other.

 

[BMG50]

Some of my S-mines have light strike stampings and some really deep, you also got to remember that the top and bottom plate is cast steel which is then machined to shape, a real hard strike through stamping will crack the top plate, the top plates seem quite fragile for hard stamping, i have a feeling that some stampings are part of the casting, also the roughness of casting can throw off a stamping mark. I also did see a star marking next to the brb /42 * and the bottom of the 42 looks as if its missing as well.

 

[Tmine35]

Yes, it may be difficult to confirm WaA-number but it would help to verify the maker.
I have 2 S-mines in near 100% original paint, both have sharp and deep stamped markings. 1939 dated one has nice stencilled WaA but 1944 dated has no WaA visible.
I must draw back my earlier statement about maker brb, Those I have are marked brc. My poor old memory - one should not say anything before crosschecking first.