14cm Hontoria Projectile? Span-Am War

[HoldThePickle24]

Hi folks. I’m looking for ANY type of photo/drawing/illustration of a projectile for the 14cm Hontoria naval gun. I believe these were British-made exports for Spain in the late 1800’s. I came across a brass case from this gun a few years ago, and I would love to make a replica projectile to exhibit with it, but I can’t find anything on these shells. I’ll include photos of the case, as well as the one photo I found that I believe is a full round displayed with a gun, but I can’t really see much about the projectile. Any further info would be a huge help. Thanks!

 

[M8owner]

What are the dimensions of that case? I do not think I have seen a longer one, ever. Information on the internet shows that was a bag gun originally, then it was converted to quick fire with a cartridge case. It is strange that we do not have more information on such a historically significant round. I remember seeing photos of those guns before, but I never thought those were rounds for the gun due to their extreme length.

 

[HoldThePickle24]

Yeah, I was really surprised by the length of this thing. I’d love to get some info on the projectiles, but like you said, there’s a void in that regard. Here are some detailed dimensions:

Height: 1257.3mm
Mouth: Inside = 137.6mm diameter
Base/bottom: 174mm diameter
Just above base: 164mm diameter

 

[no3nh4]

Hello,
The attached document, written by the French company Schneider, which manufactured the cannons designed by Gonzalez Hontoria, contains some numerical data that might interest you, such as the total length of the ammunition: 1671 mm.

Regards

 

[no3nh4]

Hello again

I haven't found any images or detailed drawings of the projectiles designed by González Hontoria. I've only found one written reference that says: "The projectiles for these cannons, designed by Hontoria, were also very similar to each other, both the new and the modified ones, and had two copper rings or bands like the current projectiles."

The article I'm citing includes some very basic drawings of these projectiles, and I also have a 7mm projectile designed by Hontoria, which I'm attaching in case it's useful.

Greeting

 

[M8owner]

You can also send an email to the museum at the U.S. Naval Academy asking if they have any rounds or information in their inventory. They should be willing to take a few photos.

 

[Hoeksel]

I have 1246 mm as length in my references but you have a real case ;-). Could you verify your length measurement for me?

 

[HoldThePickle24]

@no3nh4 Oh man, thank you so much! Using that overall length, combined with knowing the the length of my case, I can get a pretty good approximation on the projectile length - probably around 19in. Then those similar projectiles give me a pretty good start as to what to looks for. I contacted the U.S. ordnance training support facility with some of this info to see if they might have an example in their collection. Thanks so much!

 

[HoldThePickle24]

I have 1246 mm as length in my references but you have a real case ;-). Could you verify your length measurement for me?

That’s from Hawkinson’s book I take it? Not sure why the discrepancy, but the case on hand is the 1257mm from very top to very bottom, outside dimension. I’ll try to get a measurement pic for reference later.

 

[HoldThePickle24]

You can also send an email to the museum at the U.S. Naval Academy asking if they have any rounds or information in their inventory. They should be willing to take a few photos.

Good idea! I’ll give it a shot. It appears the U.S. took at least two Spanish ships in during the war. Hopefully there are some specimens in the archives.

 

[no3nh4]

Hello,

An interesting photograph

 

[M8owner]

That is a fantastic photo.

 

[HoldThePickle24]

Hello,

An interesting photograph

I think you did it! That's got to be the round. It's a bit hard to tell from the photo, but does it seem like it's missing a nose fuze, or maybe it just has a relatively bunt tip? I noticed the same thing on the one photo i posted on my original post of the rounds at the bottom of the gun in a park. Either a missing fuze, or kinda flat-nosed.

 

[no3nh4]

Hello,
I don't have reliable information to determine what type of fuze these projectiles used, but the "Gonzalez Hontoria" projectile I've seen had a transport cap that is compatible, due to the square housing for using a wrench to screw and unscrew it, similar to the one used on the British RL model fuzes. It's also compatible because of the thread pattern.

But this is just a hypothesis.

 

[Hoeksel]

Another mistake in Hawkinson is the rim as your picture shows DR (double rim). Thanks for the correction!

 

[HoldThePickle24]

I believe I may have come across another photo of one of these complete rounds. I was just searching the national archives for photos from around that war and found this picture from onboard the wrecked Infanta Maria Teresa which had 10 of these 14cm guns apparently. The round laying by the breech, obviously. Man, if I didn’t know any better, I would have thought it was a broken timber or something - they’re so long! lol
The tip of this one looks a bit more pointed, which lends me to think it either has a small fuze in there, or be a different type of projectile like a common shell?
Either way, I’m really grateful for the help from this group! I think I may have enough info to start drawing up a projectile in CAD for my case.