17PDR APDS - Different Mk's?

[RichardB]

Can anyone shed any light on the following..

I've recently picked up a second 17PDR APDS round....and have a few questions.

1. The crimping on the left round is different to the right, does anyone know what the crimping on the 17PDR APDS round would look like...I belive the RH round is wrong, and unsure abou the LH round.
2. The bottom section of the LH projectile is different to the right, are there different versions of the projectile during the war? (both these are marked 1944)
3. Do we think the paint on the LH projectile is correct....it definitely old, but is it 1944 or post war.... the red white and blue rings arent present.

If anyone knows the answers to the above observations or had any observations of their own, pls let me know



Rich

 

[SG500]

Hi Richard, I thought it may have been you who bought that one off Keith, crimped in projectiles are hard to find for the 17pr apds.
I agree the base part of the sabot on the left hand one is unusual. I have got 2 types of wartime 17pr apds projectiles, one like the one on the right and one that is slightly different to both of yours - I've never seen one with the profile of the one on the left.
Regarding the crimping - I believe it is correct on the left hand round i.e. at the very top of the case as with the 6pr7cwt, the one on the right looks like a case for most of the other types of 17 pr with the groove/crimping lower down.
Regarding the paint job on the left hand projectile - I have a sectioned 17 pounder apds projectile that is post war (I'll dig it out in the next few days and photographs it) - it is as you would expect other than that it has not got a tungsten core, the core is steel inside the steel sheath - could it be that yours is one of those? If so it wouldn't have a blue band on it (blue being tungsten cored I think).
Hope this helps - you were lucky to get the one on the left - I nearly clicked the snap it up button but as I've already got 3 of them it would be a bit greedy!
Dave.

 

[RichardB]

Hi Dave,....Lol, was it my name, RichardB that gave it away :tinysmile_shy_t:...sorry, couldn't help it

Anyway. yes I agree, and the one's I already had (77mm & 17PDR) aren't crimped or in the correct case, as they crimps match the AP, APC, APCBC & HE rounds etc.. While I'm writing this reply I have just realised that I do have another 17PDR case that appears to have exactly the same edge crimping pattern as the APDS, i.e. no crimping 1/4inch down the neck or signs of rolling out the crimps. Are there other 17PDR rounds that use crimping on the very edge, other than the APDS??

Regarding the paintwork, it is believably/definitely old, whether its 65yrs old, I can't tell, but it does have feint red paint saying 1944 and the projectile and case are also both stamped 1944. That just leaves the missing red, white and blue rings.....were they ever issued w/o the rings? I would doubt it, but just don't know.

Finally...what about the different marks of APDS, why is the base different, does anyone have any drawings that differ from those already posted.

Thanks for your help, let me know if you have any more info.

Cheers Rich

 

[SG500]

Hi again Richard, the only other 17 pounder that I can think of that may have a crimp at the very top would be the littlejohn version..........yes they did exist, I've got some design drawings of the projectile, I am assuming that the crimp would be similar to on the 2 pounder i.e. one at the very top and then one much further down at the base of the projectile..........but they are very scarce!!
Dave.

 

[SG500]

Sectioned 17 pounder APDS.

Here's a few pictures of the post war Mk 3 APDS projectile.

I'm afraid someone did a bit of a poor job when they sectioned the core of it but there rest is OK.

The core is not like the usual 17 pounder cores, its softer (they don't even get marked with a hacksaw!).

Dave.

 

[RichardB]

Thanks for that Dave, the section looks fine to me, another nice item you have......but youre right, the core looks more like mild steel rather than tungsten, which im sure would be less of a sod to section!.

What is interesting is the shape at the bottom of the Aluminium petals....which again is the same as the majority of APDS rounds Ive seen and also the drawings posted....So Im left thinking its either an early version 17PDR APDS, or perhaps another manufacturer made a variant to suit their manufacturing capabilities.???

In the meantime, ill keep looking for drawings.

Rich

 

[SG500]

Just a couple of photos of the latest 17 pounder APDS addition to the collection, have been after this one for years.:tinysmile_fatgrin_t
All INERT.
Dave.

 

[Pandaman]

I have never come across a steel APDS core for 17 pdr.
Do you have the mark available. It looks Mk 3 which was tungsten alloy.
17 pdr sabots from Canada used a different separation method as I recall.

 

[SG500]

I have never come across a steel APDS core for 17 pdr.
Do you have the mark available. It looks Mk 3 which was tungsten alloy.
17 pdr sabots from Canada used a different separation method as I recall.

Hi the only info I have is in the photos shown in this thread.
Dave.