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1918 Mills No.36

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peregrinvs

Well-Known Member
Hi,

I wonder if the Mills experts could give me an appraisal of the pictured WWI No.36? I bought it for a token sum in the mid-1990's and would like to confirm whether all the parts are original? I would also be interested to know the maker name and any other details about the markings. Another thing that has puzzled me for a while is that the grooves look like they have been machined into the body rather than cast - is this correct?

Finally, out of idle curiosity I would be interested to know roughly what it is worth? I have no plans to sell it, but like to have a feel for market values.

Grateful for all input received.:)

Mark
 

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It looks like M&Co 1918 . That's Morum & Co . All the parts you have shown are correct . Without a centre tube , it's worth about 40 . Hope this helps. Also , the marks in the frag sections are where someone has cleaned it up with a file . The body is cast originally.
 
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Thanks for the info. It does have a centre tube, I just forgot to take a picture. It looks like it's in there quite firmly though, so I haven't tried to remove it.

Cheers,
Mark
 
Mark . Just one quick point . If you can't remove the centre tube & the filler screw is still in place , how do you know if it's empty ?
 
Forgive me if this a really stupid question and I am a novice numpty as far as grenades are concerned but if the centre tube is 'siezed' inside the grenade how did the striker and spring come out?
 
No questions are stupid smle2009 - The striker and spring are independent of the centre tube, they sit inside a tube and simply slip out. There is no need for the centre tube to be removed for this to happen.
 
Morum & Co are my favourite Mills maker being a Saarf Lundon boy! The Clock Tower works were closed and the business assets sold off in 1919, so this firm only existed in WW1 to make No 5, No 36 grenades and other small armaments.

The bodies and base plugs can also be marked M&Co /L. The L being for Lewisham. I suspect the grooves on this grenade have been cleaned up on a lathe post excavation, as I don't think M&Co ever made machined bodies which anyway were only No 5's.

John
 
siegfreid said:
Mark . Just one quick point . If you can't remove the centre tube & the filler screw is still in place , how do you know if it's empty ?
Click to expand...

Best test for this is to weigh the grenade. Filled, it should weigh about 1lb.7 ozs. Empty 1lb 5 ozs though weights do vary between makers due to the variable thinkness of body castings (weights from memory!)

John
 
Thanks for all the input. Having looked up some pictures of other Morum & Co made No36's, I concur that it appears to be a dug example that has had the grooves 'improved' with a grinder or suchlike. It only cost me a fiver, so even allowing for 15-20 years inflation I still think it was a pretty good deal. :)

I did a quick check of the weight last night. I didn't have a No36 to hand to compare it to, but I can confirm it is slightly heavier than a No5 and slightly lighter than a No23 - both of which are definitely empty. There are also some marks inside the centre tube that look like someone jammed something with four edges in it in the past - presumbly to unscrew it.
 
If theres the slightest chance its still full get it looked at by the eod asap. Its a very poor example and not worth your life!
 
Finally got round to it... Thanks to some dismantling oil and an improvised centre tube tool, I can confirm 100% that the grenade is empty and safe.

Point taken however that I should have made sure of this a long time ago. Lesson learned.

Cheers,
Mark
No.36 + tube.jpg
 
Mark . Bad news there . It's the wrong centre tube for a No36 . That's a No5 tube . Someone has replaced the original at some time .
 
siegfreid said:
Mark . Bad news there . It's the wrong centre tube for a No36 . That's a No5 tube . Someone has replaced the original at some time .
Click to expand...
Interesting - I had no idea. What is the difference between the two?

In which case I may swap it with a repro tube I currently have in a restored No.5. Am I right in thinking the 'Z' marking is for Zinc?

Cheers,
Mark
 
Mark . Do you mean that Z mark that is inked on the side or is there one stamped on the inside of the threaded portion ? That's not a zinc alloy tube & in any case the Z mark only appeared after 1939 so never appears on WW1 ordnance . There is a thread somewhere on BOCN that I posted some time ago about WW1 Mills centre tubes . The No5 tube will fit a No36 but look incongruous . Can you post a scan of the inside lower part ? The No5 tubes have a ridge around the striker pocket & the No 36 tubes are flat .
 
siegfreid said:
Mark . Do you mean that Z mark that is inked on the side or is there one stamped on the inside of the threaded portion ? That's not a zinc alloy tube & in any case the Z mark only appeared after 1939 so never appears on WW1 ordnance . There is a thread somewhere on BOCN that I posted some time ago about WW1 Mills centre tubes . The No5 tube will fit a No36 but look incongruous . Can you post a scan of the inside lower part ? The No5 tubes have a ridge around the striker pocket & the No 36 tubes are flat .
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I don't have it currently to hand, but going from memory the 'Z' marking is stamped into the metal and it's the only marking on the tube. I don't recall there being a ridge around the striker pocket, but I'll double check tonight.

Cheers,
Mark
 
The attached image of side views shows from left to right:

No.5 or 23MkI/II centre piece;
Another variation of No.5 or 23MkI/II centre piece;
No.23MkIII or No.36 MkI centre piece;
WWII No.36 M MkI centre piece.

The image of bottom views show the two No.5 c-ps at the top; the No.23MkIII/No.36 bottom left; WWII No.36 bottom right.





Tom.
 

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peregrinvs said:
Finally got round to it... Thanks to some dismantling oil and an improvised centre tube tool, I can confirm 100% that the grenade is empty and safe.

Point taken however that I should have made sure of this a long time ago. Lesson learned.

Cheers,
Mark
View attachment 75717
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If there was any doubt you shouldnt have attempted this yourself and got it dealt with by the authoritys, just not worth the risk wether it only cost 5 or 5,000000
 
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