2 pounder composite rigid projectile

[SG500]

Attached are some photos of what I assume is a 2 pounder composite rigid projectile.
Its 40mm in diameter.
Has a magnesium cap.
It has a hardened tungsten alloy core.
There is a washer, followed by a tuffnel ring followed by a steel ring that hold the last 2 in place.
Stamping is on the band and base.

Has anyone any ideas? Was it ever adopted for service. Are there any other examples out there?

(Some of you may have seen this previously, it was included in an ECRA query a few years ago. Note also paint isn't original).

Dave.

 

[SG500]

Hi guys, just a memory jolt on this one.

Surely someone out there has seen something like this. Without the tufnel (now sure about the spelling??) bit in the middle its a bit like an arrowhead round - perhaps someone was trying to make arrowheads more aerodynamic in flight - pure speculation here though and assuming its British I'm not aware of any British arrowhead rounds anyway?

Dave.

 

[marty_01]

My initial thought was 2pdr APSV MkI or MkII. I think this was used with Little John adapter. No idea if thats what you have or not.

Do you have any idea what on the tungesten carbide core diameter and weight? The 2pdr SVAP Mk-IIs WC core is listed in an ammunition manual I have as weighing 8-oz 10-dr. Don't know what of the core for the MkI

 

[marty_01]

2pdr APSV MkI on the left -- 2pdr APSV MkII on the right.

 

[marty_01]

Never mind -- I see you have already had a disscussion 2-pdr APSV.

A little john adapter was also made by the British for U.S. 37mm gun. It was tested for use in Staghound Armored Cars. No idea if the 37mm little john actually saw any service during WWII.

 

[SG500]

Hi Marty, thanks for the ideas and yes I'm familiar with both 2 pounder littlejohns and the 37mm. The composite rigid one is still a mystery to me.
I'll dig it out again and take some measurements of the core.
Dave.

 

[poltewerke]

40mm. exptl,

Dave, looks like exptl. CRAP proj for 2lb. No2. ?? Regards, Ron.

 

[SG500]

Thanks Ron. Would that be CRAP or APCR?
Dave.

 

[Tony Williams]

I understand that the designers started out calling it CRAP until it dawned on them that this could be misconstrued...:tinysmile_hmm_t:

 

[poltewerke]

Dave, it would be Composite Rigid Armour Piercing as in the 6lb.7cwt. round - design is different in latter but all it means is that a whole light weight proj. impacts target and the smaller dia. hard core penetrates. Good point is the higher M.V. but countered by severe drop off in velocity along its trajectory at long range - hence the ballistic profile of the projectile. Regards, Ron

 

[SG500]

Just jolting this very old thread to see if anyone has managed to unearth any information on this one.
Thanks.
Dave.

 

[Bonnex]

Dave,

Not a lot to do with the subject but I thought you would find this of interest (as would Ron if he was still with us). Apologies as always for the quality.

 

[Przezdzieblo]

Definitely it is not alike service 6 pdr APCR. It also is different from Canadian experimental APCR for 2pdr David high velocity gun. The lack of any nose pad is suspcious, British used to put something there from very start. Is there any small hole inside the cap, in it`s axis, which could be used to attach small pad?

 

[ydnum303]

Cannot help you with identifying your projectile, Dave, but I have just acquired one that is slightly similar to yours. Found it in a local antiques arcade, where it was being sold as "40mm Bofors Light Armour Piercing Tracer". It was in a short 2-Pdr AA gun case!

It had obviously got wet at some point as there was some rust on the steel bits. The cap is Bakelite or Tufnol or similar, as is the central ring. The washer at the bottom is card, and unfortunately was rusted to the main steel body. The bit that the card washer sits on is dished downwards, and the base of the cylindrical Tufnol bit is shaped to fit. The driving band is not in the usual shape for a 2-pdr (or Bofors), but looks like a scaled-up 20mm Hispano type. The base is hollow, and unthreaded, so probably did not have any sort of plug. The only markings on it are C 43 on the side of the steel ring, and on the side below the driving band, and 43 on the base.

Below the driving band it is exactly the same external profile of a 2-pdr A/T projectile, and measures 39.85mm diameter. In front of the drive-band it is 39.75mm dia., and over the drive band it is 41.13mm. Length from bottom of drive band to base is 19.4mm, and length o.a. is 136mm.

There is an interesting drawing posted by Bonnex on 18th April 2012 in the "Experimental Munitions" part, under the title "2Pr AP Shot 100 Cal Experimental Gun" which shows a CR 2-Pdr proj with a conical top, so they were obviously playing around with such items, so it may be that yours is a later development model of the one I have.

I would be very interested to find out more info about these rounds. Let's hope that some of our experts can come up with some!

Regards,
Roger.

 

[SG500]

Thanks Roger. That's what I just love about collecting this sort of stuff. You go for years hunting for that elusive projectile and the one pops up in the local antiques arcade. Well done, good find!

There are certainly striking similarities between the 2 projectiles. To date I've not been able to find out any more information.

Thanks for showing the photos.

Dave.

 

[Spaceinvader]

Very old post but I thought it was worth bringing back.

After a lot of research this was the only thread I found after a very similar projectile from the same series of projectiles shown above came up for sale at a local auction. I tried to get it but didn’t end up winning it unfortunately.

It seems the nose and the ring of the body are made of the Tuffnel (?) material with the metal ring below the cap. Same “TCB 2” marking as well, undoubtedly from the same tests. Also unfortunately these are the only photos provided.

 

[SG500]

Very old post but I thought it was worth bringing back.

After a lot of research this was the only thread I found after a very similar projectile from the same series of projectiles shown above came up for sale at a local auction. I tried to get it but didn’t end up winning it unfortunately.

It seems the nose and the ring of the body are made of the Tuffnel (?) material with the metal ring below the cap. Same “TCB 2” marking as well, undoubtedly from the same tests. Also unfortunately these are the only photos provided.

Hi thanks for posting the photos, WOW, the same stamping on the base "TCB".
Its all out there, keep hunting guy!
Dave.