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20\110 Hispano Cannon shell.

G

grjbyfleet

New Member
I have aquired a 20mm 110 HE dummy Hispanio shell, It has the number 87 stamps on the bottom of the shell. I believe this means LAND e.g. HS404 anti aircraft weapon.
The marking of I believe 21 neabs Air e.g. Hurricane MarkII C cannon.

both shells look the same, but I want to know the difference between the 87 and the 91 shells.
I am guessing that the 91 has a higher tollerence when being built as we as different powder load.

Can anyone confirm the actually difference between 87 and 21?

Gary
 
Yes, a photograph would be most helpful.

May I ask your reference for these markings? I have not seen anything that distinguishes Land Service from Air Service Hispano ammunition. There is nothing in the 20mm manuals I have. Similarly there is nothing on the package labels either.

I presume that when you say "shell" you mean just the projectile and not the complete cartridge?

Regards
TonyE
 
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....the only thing I have found which distinguishes possible land service from air service with 20X110mm English Hispano ammunition is it being fitted with a No 258 MkI fuze with the tip colour blue,and this was for ground to air use so probably came under air service in a AA use anyway?....all other fuzes and tip colours were for air to air use.(ref TAG series 2 pamphlet 6,revised March 2001)

Tony
 
AA Hispano and Polsten guns used by the army would be Land Service. I suppose it would only be Air Service if they were used by the RAF regiment to defend airfields. (which of course they were)

Although the 258 Mark I fuze was too sensitive for air to air use, AFAIK the basic ammunition was identical for either use. Interestingly, there is no detail of the fuze type on any of the packet labels I have seen (examples attached). Perhaps there was an over sticker or stamp applied?

Regards
TonyE
 

Attachments

  • 20mm H HEI Iz.jpg
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  • 20mm H HEI IIz.jpg
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  • 20mm H HEI Iz 2.jpg
    20mm H HEI Iz 2.jpg
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  • 20mm H BIz.jpg
    20mm H BIz.jpg
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Nice labels TonyE.....interesting to note that only one of them is a A.I.D. label,which I suppose, because the 20mm Hispano cannon replaced the Browning .303" MG in aircraft fairly late on in WW2 and that the Hispano was used in a AA role before that time there would have been more Land service use than Air service use during the WW2 anyway?

Cheers
Tony
 
I am not sure when the "A.I.D." Air Inspection Department labels came into use. Before the war "A.I.D." was the Army Inspection Department.

The Hispano started to be used in the Hurricane IIC in late 1940 and fighters were progressivel up gunned to 20mm as the war progressed. I would think the RAF were the biggest users by far as the army mainly used the Oerlikon and Polsten for light AA defence. Even the Centurion Mark I had a Polsten in the turret.

Regards
TonyE
 
I have donated the shell to the Brooklands Museam. I am there on Wednesday (4/11/13) and will try and get a picture.
 
I keep meaning to find some decent .303 drill rounds for the Museum to replace those battered examples they have on display in the Browning mechanism cabinet!

BTW, you did not answer my question about your reference for what was Land and what was Air service.

Regards
Tonye
 
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