What's new
British Ordnance Collectors Network

This is a sample guest message. Register a free account today to become a member! Once signed in, you'll be able to participate on this site by adding your own topics and posts, as well as connect with other members through your own private inbox!

24lb spherical common shell

B

Bully1970

Well-Known Member
Dug around 2 years ago, bathed in fresh and regularly changed, the wooden Boxer fuse soaked in PEG fluid and freeze dried.

EOD had it first and got rid of the black powder inside and returned it to me, it weighed in at 17lb with the black powder in it, unlike the solid shot which is 24lb...same dimensions though. Its marked with a P on the side which is perhaps a proof stamp from the IOA?

A bit of a beast and nice rivet on the base to connect to the wooden sabot which would have held it.

Common2.jpg

Common1.jpg

Common3.jpg

Common.jpg

Common4.jpg
 
Another great restoration, very nice that you have the original fuze with it. The central rivet was approved in September 1856 & the presence of the rivet hole therefore provides a dateline, prior to this tin straps were used to secure the wood bottom. The P stamp I cannot see clearly, any chance of a better photo of that please? I have not seen such a stamp on spherical projectiles. There is a small hole near your central rivet, it appears to be the diameter of sea service rivet holes, of which there were two opposite each other, the navy did not use a central rivet as their wood bottoms had no wood in their center to enable double shotting. They found that otherwise the lower shot would travel through the wood bottom & crack the shell above before it could overcome its own inertia. I am curious to know if there is another small hole on the opposite side of your central rivet because I have a shell (32pr) that has both sets of holes (enabling land or sea service). Theoretically there won't be two sea service rivet holes on your 24pr shell as the sea service wood bottoms at this time were 32pr & 68pr, however a problem with contemporary references is that those cannot describe what came after their date of writing.
 
Last edited:
Good morning Adrian, thank you for a concise answer, I'm still learning this stuff as the German WW2 finds are more my expertise. I'm trawling different Treatises/Google etc to gain knowledge :tinysmile_grin_t:

Please see below for more shots - so you don't think this one was sea service? the area I found it is surrounded by History...2 Forts, a Castle, numerous Towers...all equipped with differing size cannon and types over the years making it hard to ID finds sometimes, also shipwrecks in the area too and lots of ship traffic recorded.

Any info much appreciated, any idea on the mark by the fuse hole?

IMG_3202.jpg

IMG_3203.jpg

IMG_3204.jpg
 
The marks are unfamiliar to me but I do not think they have been placed recently. At a guess the 'P', if that is what it is, might signify that the shell was prepared for Pettman's Fuze, however that was usually indicated by a cross on its service plug, who knows though if that was the only method applied.... I think I can detect the remains of a matching Navy rivet hole to the left edge of that small 'crater' on the base, the same distance and on an axis line opposite from the copper rivet as the other hole. Can you please post close up of each of the two marks & also of that small crater, the photos are not large enough to zoom in on those. Some close ups of the fuze may also identity what type that is, also would need to know its length please.

An added edit to the above - Apparently 24pr (& 12pr) shells were for Howitzers for broadside purposes as well. So it would be logical that these have both the sea & land service rivet holes, as I suspect your example has.
 
Last edited:
Here you go:

24lb common – black powder filled - 17lb unfilled
Upper collar diameter 34.5mm
Hole diameter 27.5 (top thread) – tapering to 25.45 half way down (verniers couldn’t get to bottom)
Wooden fuse length – 80mm – 10 holes (10 sec??)

IMG_3235.jpg

IMG_3236.jpg

IMG_3237.jpg

IMG_3238.jpg

IMG_3209.jpg

IMG_3217.jpg

IMG_3216.jpg

Hope these help.

Below are a couple of chunks found in the area

IMG_3225.jpg

IMG_3226.jpg

IMG_3227.jpg

Another, M on the rivet??

IMG_3224.jpg

IMG_3223.jpg

IMG_3221.jpg

Cheers and any advice appreciated :)
 
I don't think the shells with the central rivet are spherical case as by the time of the rivet's introduction, spherical case (shrapnel), was improved by Boxer & have a small separate loading hole for the powder.

The dimensions provided tally very well with a July 1864 Royal Laboratory Plate (No 34) with the exception that your example is at the heavy end of the scale, average weight is listed as 16 lb, 1 oz & 15 dr. The fuze hole taper is 1 inch in 9.375.

I am hesitant to place the fuze type, there were a few of this length but the most similar seem to have 2 rows of 9 holes, not 10. There is a unfinished book I was working on ten years ago & intend to continue transcribing & researching that in the next year or so, I suspect the answer is in there somewhere. One of the forum members here (Yorkshireman I think is his avatar) may be able to clarify what this fuze is. Usually each hole represented increments 1/4 of a second, however I doubt that accords to every fuze type.
 
Hallo @Bully 1970,
congratulation to a very nice conservation job. I have 2 questions: The shell has screwthreading for the fuze, so there had to be a metallic threaded sleeve (fuzeholder) for the wooden boxer fuse. What happened to this ? You write that the Black Powder was removed. With a wood-fuzed shell there is no more black powder left after more than 150 years in the ground. All the Salpeter is washed out and only a rockhard conglomeration of charcoal and sulphur left. This does not even burn and can only be removed by very strong mechanical means.
Bellifortis.
 
Hi Bellifortis,

I thought that too with regards to the sleeve, if you see the shot below from when it was found...I cant see one but it may be under the dirt around the fuse? There is a possibility EOD kept it too...which I don't mind. What do you think? was there one there?

Yes it was packed with a rock hard black substance, I assumed it was the remains of the black powder so thank you for letting me know what it was :tinysmile_grin_t: I'm still learning about this stuff.

24lb top.jpg
 
It is difficult with spherical projectiles, fuzes etc to draw a fine line & to expect one detail/feature or another as they cover such a wide time frame, were altered reasonably frequently (as were most ordnance items) & detailed documentation prior to about the mid 1850s is sparse & largely confined to unpublished original records etc. However some projectiles do sometimes have a feature that enables rudimentary dating, such as this 24pr Common Shell having the rivet holes & that particular fuze hole configuration, both details conform to known information. Common Shells in this period did not have a bronze/brass bush, socket or adaptor screwed into their fuze holes, with the exception of the 12pr Common Shell which did have a socket screwed in due to its smaller dia & thinner shell wall. The tapered threaded fuze hole, tapped into Common Shells, served two purposes, one to take a service plug to seal it & second to provide friction for the wood fuze that was driven in. Also for a time the Navy had metal time fuzes & those were screwed in.


A section of Royal Laboratory Plate 34 below showing this detail;

I note in this fuze section that there are 10 holes, 9 timed increments & one blowout, that explains the ten holes of your fuze, the blowout hole is not shown on the paper that fuzes (& diagrams), so I will have another attempt at identifying your fuze later.

Capture001.jpg
 
Last edited:
The fuze that you have with your 24pr Common Shell is a Common Fuze, introduced in 1855. I had just read through pages & pages of their introduction, defects, how they were made, everything - except actual confirmation of what time increment each hole represents! However it is a given that each hole is one second, providing a 20 second fuze & indeed this is certainly inferred when reading about other fuzes etc. You will note that it is the same fuze shown in the section of Plate 34 in the previous post.

Capture02.jpg
 
Hello,
Nice balls, thanks for sharing.
What is the diameter of a 24lb common shell ?
TIA
Regards
 
The official plate (July 1864) lists the Mean diameter as 5.595", Greatest as 5.62" and the Least as 5.57".
 
A nice example from the other end of the world.
Recovered from an unrelated Govt. store in the late 60's, serving as a door stop!.
24PR (1).JPG24PR (2).JPG24PR.035.JPG

And the cannon...
24pr.cannon.020.JPG
 
Last edited:
Wow a super example, nice to see the 'W/I\D' & '24pr' stamps are still apparent on its wood bottom.
 
Yes, this rivetted example dates from the mid 1850s and the system prior to that was to strap the wood bottoms on. The straps were made of tin and the main objections to them were that there were often coming off and that the windage was excessive, because the shells had to be made at a lower gauge to accommodate the strap thickness.
 
Here is another 24 pounder from what I think is southern states, US Civil War. Restored with electrolysis. Inert of course.

Before and after pic included.

20190627_145014.jpg
20200129_141713.jpg
20190626_092724.jpg
20190624_123148.jpg
20190624_123639.jpg
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top