2inch Practice mortar round

[spotter]

This is my 2inch Practice Mortar Round.These are used to practice live firing ,Filled with sand they are built to simulate the flight of HE rounds.The fuze is simply a dummy plug.It has a hole through the sides and a threaded hole in the nose to screw on the removeable safety cap.The red band indicates that a live propelling cartridge is used and the Yellow band indicates PRACTICE not HE as most would think.It is marked this way as it is using pre 1964 colour codes,i have also seen practice piat rounds using the same yellow band to indicate practice...Once fired these rounds were meant to be recovered and re used,which is why the safety cap attatches with a bolt
The tail on this example is date stamped for 1963

 

[armystuff]

one 2" mortar one something else

:tinysmile_shy_t: hi

i was looking out some 2pdr shells for someone and came across these in a box i had hidden from the wife .
one 2" mortar with dummy on it ,( see spotter im getting good at this been reading your articles )

and one something else any ideas ??? :tinysmile_shy_t:
armystuff

 

[spotter]

WW1 german granatenwerfer ,

 

[BMG50]

Armystuff your two inch mortar has a converted tail fin ie an extra row of holes making it four, this was to relieve pressure from the early Mk 1 balistite cartridges as these tails were made of a weaker aluminium silicon alloy to the later mazak tails until the mark2 cartridges came along. It was found that theses early tails were OK when used with the Mk 2 cartridge.The tails use to split, causing the bomb to fall short. All mazak tails with a Z should be maked with a blob of red paint on one side of a fin but not the alli ones. Your two inch round is not practice, it has a proper 151 or 161 fuze minus the insides and the brass impact cap that is normaly crimped on. If you found the bits to the insides it would be a lovely demo fuze you could strip down and examine. To remove the fuze remember it is a left hand thread (opposite to normal). What are the markings on the fuze. have you already had a peak inside, sometimes the cardboard tube that surrounds the bottom half of the fuze and felt discs that cover the explosive are left inside in some practice bombs which i have found in the past.

 

[armystuff]

mortar

:tinysmile_shy_t:hi BMG50
i the pic no2 i have two mark 1 with z marks and SFD LTD 1940
pic no 1 i have stripped the mortar now that you have told me iy was a left hand thread, couldent open it before
i can only find the mark WDC1 on the fuse itself .
on the outside rim is the words dummy in pic 3
on the tail fin is TFD LTD 1938
there is no cardboard tube inside the mortar ?

on pic two left hand side i have two smaller mortar caps what dose this mortar look like ??
regards armystuff,

 

[spotter]

Picture shows 2inch para ilum mortar rounds ,these have a thin cap that pops off when the parachute/ilumination is ejected,
The 2 smaller caps are from the 162 fuze used on the 3inch and 4.2 inch mortar round

 

[armystuff]

mortars

cheers mate
armystuff :tinysmile_shy_t:

 

[TimG]

I have no listings for either SFD or TFD. However, both the companies listed below are shown as die-casters and it was not unusual to append a d to the official monogram of a die-casting company.

TFD = Trico-Folberth (Die-casters) (the windscreen wiper manufacturers) Great West Road, Brentford. Middx.

SFD = Shaw Foundry Co., Ltd., (Die casters). Part of ARTHUR SHAW AND CO LTD, DENVER WORKS, WILLENHALL Architectural iron mongers

WDC = Wolverhampton Die-Casting Co., Ltd., (151Fuzes)

Tim.G.

 

[armystuff]

mortars

:tinysmile_shy_t: thank you for that info timG that explains the markings,

regards armystuff,

 

[Quatermass]

I've got a similar mortar bomb, marked DUMMY on the side of the fuze.

Body stamped 2 MOR 1MW 12 40

The tail fin has four holes and is marked 4 F D LTD 1939 - 2

Armystuff could your S be a 4?

Quatermass

 

[armystuff]

mortar

hi Quatormass :tinysmile_shy_t:
tried to take pic but bad focus ?
checked the numbers it is SFD LTD 1940 maybe this is a realy rare one checking out holidays as we speak :tinysmile_shy_t::tinysmile_shy_t:
regards armystuff

 

[armystuff]

mortar

hi Quatormass :tinysmile_shy_t:
tried to take pic but bad focus ?
checked the numbers it is SFD LTD 1940 maybe this is a realy rare one checking out holidays as we speak :tinysmile_shy_t:




regards armystuff

 

[BMG50]

Rare to see pre 1940 tail fins, especially 38. I know that dummy rounds were made up when there was a shortage, made from stripped down fuzes and dismantled bomb bodies. You can tell if the fuze is a 151 or 161 apart from the markings that would be stamped over with Dummy. There should be a hole for the safety pin on the 161 fuze as the 151 hasn't one, there is also a semi hole for a G spanner to tighten up the fuze to the bomb.
As for the other two mortar rounds there were about 3 types; parachute iluminum, signal, and signal sucess. Signal rounds are shorter in body than the parachute rounds and the either came in one colour red or green single star or in muli star colours red or green or both together. they also had this arragement as white stars. Signal sucess has a parachute with a iluminum signal that changed from green to red to green to red to green to red about 6 times. These rounds had the early No;3 steel tail as the balistite charge was high at 73 grains and could only be used in this round. Signal sucess would be a rare bird to get hold of.

 

[TimG]

I've no listing for 1MW, but do have one for MW which is 'Mitcham Works' being a reference to the location of the Mullard Factory (except that it wasn't in Mitcham it was in Hackbridge, just down the road). Whilst Mullards would have been producing what we would now call electronic equipment for the services, it wouldn't be unusual for such companies to utilise any spare engineering capacity to manufacture warlike stores. An example is Cossor Ltd who made specialist thermionic valves but also made 221 fuzes. Cossors actually had more demand for valves then they could handle and thus sub-contracted some of the valve manufacture. But, as said they still had the capacity to manufacture fuzes. I would be interested to see which had the greater profit margin.

FD - Fry's Die - casting company, London. I suspect that this might be part of Fry's metals based in South Wimbledon, which some might describe as North Mitcham! But that would just be too convenient from a logistics
point of view. The '4' almost certainly denotes the die used.

Tim. G.

 

[Quatermass]

Excellent reply Tim, your depth of knowledge never fails to impress!

Quatermass.

 

[armystuff]

mortar

hi
i checked again its :tinysmile_shy_t: SFD LTD 1940
armystuff

 

[TimG]

Q,

Now having seen the image, this particular specimen probably induced apoplexy in the Examiner appointed by the Ministry of Supply. There is no inch symbol after the 2, the 'M' of MOR is actually an upside down 'W.' The 1 is Arabic not Roman. The spacing is poor. It should read :
2" MOR I MW 12 40.

War or not, there are standards to be adhered to.

It might of been a reason why it ended up as a drill round.

Regards

Tim.G.

 

[roller63]

A couple of 2" Practice Mortars from my collection, the alloy tailed one is marked on the body : SMK 2" MOR I W&W (in diamond) 5/43. The dummy fuse is marked : CHL ltd /43. The tail is marked : RE&S (in shield) 12/42. The cap on the tail is marked ORB 43. Presumably this was made from a redundant bursting smoke body as it has no emission holes, and looks like an HE one.
The steel tailed one looks like an official re-paint. It is quite poorly finished, as you can see, the red and yellow bands on the body have runs in them and the stencilling is poor. This reads : 2" MOR MK1/1 (broad arrow) The fuse plug only has a broad arrow mark on it, and I cannot see any markings on the body. The safety cap is varnished brown and is marked : REMOVE BEFORE FIRING. Steel tail marked No4 LOT 82 CL 10/53 and broad arrow. The cap on the tail is marked : ORB 11/52 S.