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30mm KCA KCB KCC

SG500

SG500

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
I just thought I'd post a few photos of the differences between the 30mm KCA, KCB and KCC rounds.
All photos show the KCA on the left, the KCB in the middle and the KCC on the right.

The KCA is longer with a higher neck.

The extraction gooves on all 3 are completely different.

All INERT/primer empty etc.

I've only ever come across this loading for the KCC, does anyone have any other loadings in this case?KCA KCB KCC 001.jpgKCA KCB KCC 003.jpgKCA KCB KCC 002.jpgKCA KCB KCC 004.jpg

Dave.
 
Thanks for showing Dave and explaining the differences. Great rounds you have there.

Darren
 
For people who are interested this is how it works:

First letter, K, for kanone (gun).
Second letter for calibre: A=20 mm, B=25mm, C=30mm and D=35 mm.
Third letter for gun model for a given calibre. For instance, KBA is 25 mm gun with 25x138 rounds, KBB is gun with 25x184 rounds, KCB is ggu with 30x170 rounds.

Sure i've got at least 1 KCC Dave, will have a look.

C.
 
I have a KCC drill round made in one piece, finished in a very pretty metallic purple paint, except for a chromed base.

I know it's a KCC because it's got KCC stamped in the base (the only marking)!

One of the guns used to exist in the old Pattern Room and may still be in the NFC for all I know. I recall Herb telling me about it, but it was a couple of decades ago and I can't recall what it was for, or how it differed from the KCA or KCB.
 
THANKS FOR THE PHOTOS. Shure would like a empty case,anyone out there with a spare for sale?
Good collecting Frank
 
Thanks for the comments guys.
rcaf53, I assume its a KCC you're after? If so they're tricky to find but will keep looking.
Dave.
 
Hi Dave,
would these be from these rounds? Any good to you to fill in those holes?:bigsmile:

TonyP2100005.JPGP2100004.JPGP2100007.JPG
 
Dave and Charlie,

Dave, thanks for posting the photos and giving the descriptions. Great to see them all side-by-side and know which is which.

Charlie, thanks for the explanation of caliber versus Alpha designators. Excellent info to have.

John
 
Tony Williams said:
I have a KCC drill round made in one piece, finished in a very pretty metallic purple paint, except for a chromed base.

I know it's a KCC because it's got KCC stamped in the base (the only marking)!

One of the guns used to exist in the old Pattern Room and may still be in the NFC for all I know. I recall Herb telling me about it, but it was a couple of decades ago and I can't recall what it was for, or how it differed from the KCA or KCB.
Click to expand...

Oh dear, i am now confuddled!!! I thoucht i had 2 KCC rounds, one TPT and one Drill. The TPT I am 99.9999% sure is a matched KCC case and projectile. The drill I think is the same as Tony's being a pretty metallic purple and STAMPED KCC on the bottom. All good untill you compare the extraction groves!!!!!!?????

From Left to right KCB TPT, KCC Drill (I thought?), KCC TPT, KCB Drill.

????!!!!!!!?????

Am i being Stupid or missing something?


photo 1a.JPGphoto 2a.JPGphoto 3a.JPG
 
What gun is the 30x170 KCC for? I can find NO references to a KCC gun. If you look at the pictures closely you can see that the KCC has a base very similar to the KCA. Could the KCC be a KCB made on the KCA machinery?
 
I now know about the KCC, thanks to being put in touch with someone who was involved in its development.

This was a revolver cannon which was specifically developed for a naval anti-missile gun system (CIWS) in the early 1980s and was planned to use the KCB ammo because of its wide distribution in navies. It was intended to be used in a twin mounting providing 3,000 rpm combined RoF. However, the existing KCA aircraft revolver wasn't suitable since not only did it fire 30x173 rather than 30x170 ammo, but it was electric rather than percussion primed, so its design was modified to use KCB ammo. As it turned out, there were some problems with using existing KCB ammo, so they modified the extractor groove and also provided two crimping grooves rather than one. It was intended that this ammo would be backwards-compatible with the KCB.

It appears that the KCC was a technical success but ran into internal politics at Oerlikon - it was felt that it would take sales away from the KBB gun in 25x180, specifically the four-gun Sea Zenith mounting which was part of the SeaGuard CIWS, so production of the KCC was never funded. In retrospect this may have been a mistake, as the SeaGuard was only sold to one customer - Turkey. OTOH, the KCC system would have competed directly with the Goalkeeper CIWS, which used the 30mm GAU-8/A cannon.
 
Thanks for that Tony,

Whats the extraction groove like in your purple drill round? Is it the same as mine above i.e. the same as KCB?
 
Yes, it has a small groove. For a drill round, I don't suppose it matters. The larger groove was introduced to make extraction at 1,500 rpm more reliable.
 
Thanks Tony. I might be able to forgo collecting the KCC round since it is "experimental" and I collect only issued ammo. However if I saw a round I would............ probably have to have it.
 
I've revived this one to add that the KCC gun from the Pattern Room still exists, I saw it in the National Firearms Centre very recently. It looks very like the Oerlikon KCA, as you might expect.
 
something iv'e never looked at extraction grooves thanks for uploading an interesting point now iv'e got to get em all out and check em
 
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