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37 X 165 Type 98 (Japanese)
- Thread starter SG500
- Start date
BOUGAINVILLE
Well-Known Member
37 mm japanese land service rounds
Hi there!:tinysmile_shy_t:
Have got about 6 MB of information in WORD ducument but it is to big to post. This is part of my research. Have downloaded some illustrations over two posts.
Hope this is of some help.
Cheers,
BOUGAINVILLE:tinysmile_shy_t:
Hi there!:tinysmile_shy_t:
Have got about 6 MB of information in WORD ducument but it is to big to post. This is part of my research. Have downloaded some illustrations over two posts.
Hope this is of some help.
Cheers,
BOUGAINVILLE:tinysmile_shy_t:
Attachments
BOUGAINVILLE
Well-Known Member
37 mm japanese land service rounds
The Army used no less than eight different 37mm guns all told, encompassing five case types. The projectiles they fired were, for the most part, common to all of them. The oldest and smallest of these designs was the 11 Year Type Infantry gun, which was copied from an American design the U.S. M1916 37mm gun. This was adopted in 1922 (Taisho 11). Although obsolescent before World War II, it was used in all theatres of operations and has the widest variety of known loads. As already stated the case of this ammunition was used for the Ho203 aircraft cannon. A somewhat longer version of this was the Type 94 Tank. The Type 94 Anti-tank gun is probably the most commonly encountered 37mm nowadays. This is a larger case configuration altogether and was adopted for the Type 98 Tank and Type 100 Tank guns as well. Finally, there were two rounds characterised by their length, the Type 97 Anti-tank and one copied from a German design, the Type 1 Tank and similar Type 1 Anti-tank. The table below gives the identification markings on these different cases together, with base diameter and length.
Designation Base diameter Case length
11 Year Type Infantry 47mm 111mm
Type 94 Tank 47mm 132mm
Type 94 Anti-Tank* 54mm 165mm
Type 98 Tank* 54mm 165mm
Type 100 Tank* 54mm 165mm
Type 97 Anti-Tank** 51mm 252mm
Type 1 Tank** 54mm 254mm
Type 1 Anti-Tank 54mm 254mm
* Since the type 94 antitank, type 98 tank, and type 100 tank guns use the same cartridge case, cases will be found marked for individual guns or for all three guns.
** The cases for the type 97 and type 1 antitank guns can be distinguished by the fact that the type 97 is almost straight, whereas the type 1 has a pronounced neck. The type 1 tank and type 1 antitank guns use the same case.
All these cases except for the Type 1 Tank and Anti-Tank take the standard Year 40 Type screw-in primer, most of which exhibit the markings of Tokyo or Osaka Arsenals. The undesignated primer on the Type 1 case is larger than the Type 40. Propellant in the two smaller cases is large square flake nitro-cellulose. All the larger designs have large cylindrical nitro-cellulose contained in a silk bag, stencilled with the appropriate markings for the gun to be used in, which has a black powder igniter in a small bag sewn to the bottom. All except the Type 11 contain a small piece of lead tinfoil to act as a de-coppering agent.
Two explosive projectiles are known, the oldest being the 13 Year Type which is readily identified by its large nose fuze. Although replaced by the later and much more common Type 94 explosive this projectile is known both in the 11 Year Infantry and Type 94 Tank gun cases. The Type 94 explosive uses the standard Type 93 fuze found on 20mm ammunition. A practice version of this projectile uses black powder instead of the picric acid/TNT filling on the full load.
All the other projectiles are armour-piercing, mostly with base fuzed explosive fillings, which begin with a 12 Year Type AP/HE. The full load for this has a TNT filling and uses the Type 12 base fuze. A practice version substitutes black powder for this explosive.
This was followed by a Type 94 AP/HE which had a picric acid filling and Type 94 base fuze, which is probably the commonest of all the AP projectiles. A practice version of this has the HE cavity filled with sand and closed by a metal plug instead of the fuze An alternative training load used, as far as is known, only in the Type 94 tank gun, was the Type 96 armour-piercing projectile. This was apparently a Type 12 with the long internal cavity filled with sand and metal base plug.
Finally, there is the Type 1 AP/HE projectile base on a similar German design which is noticeably shorter and more rounded in the olgive than the others. This has a filling of R.D.X. and paraffin wax and utilises the Type 1 base fuze.
In addition to the above, blanks are known for the 11 Year Infantry and Type 94 Tank guns. No details are forthcoming on these but they may have had no projectile and just a card and wad seal.
The Army used no less than eight different 37mm guns all told, encompassing five case types. The projectiles they fired were, for the most part, common to all of them. The oldest and smallest of these designs was the 11 Year Type Infantry gun, which was copied from an American design the U.S. M1916 37mm gun. This was adopted in 1922 (Taisho 11). Although obsolescent before World War II, it was used in all theatres of operations and has the widest variety of known loads. As already stated the case of this ammunition was used for the Ho203 aircraft cannon. A somewhat longer version of this was the Type 94 Tank. The Type 94 Anti-tank gun is probably the most commonly encountered 37mm nowadays. This is a larger case configuration altogether and was adopted for the Type 98 Tank and Type 100 Tank guns as well. Finally, there were two rounds characterised by their length, the Type 97 Anti-tank and one copied from a German design, the Type 1 Tank and similar Type 1 Anti-tank. The table below gives the identification markings on these different cases together, with base diameter and length.
Designation Base diameter Case length
11 Year Type Infantry 47mm 111mm
Type 94 Tank 47mm 132mm
Type 94 Anti-Tank* 54mm 165mm
Type 98 Tank* 54mm 165mm
Type 100 Tank* 54mm 165mm
Type 97 Anti-Tank** 51mm 252mm
Type 1 Tank** 54mm 254mm
Type 1 Anti-Tank 54mm 254mm
* Since the type 94 antitank, type 98 tank, and type 100 tank guns use the same cartridge case, cases will be found marked for individual guns or for all three guns.
** The cases for the type 97 and type 1 antitank guns can be distinguished by the fact that the type 97 is almost straight, whereas the type 1 has a pronounced neck. The type 1 tank and type 1 antitank guns use the same case.
All these cases except for the Type 1 Tank and Anti-Tank take the standard Year 40 Type screw-in primer, most of which exhibit the markings of Tokyo or Osaka Arsenals. The undesignated primer on the Type 1 case is larger than the Type 40. Propellant in the two smaller cases is large square flake nitro-cellulose. All the larger designs have large cylindrical nitro-cellulose contained in a silk bag, stencilled with the appropriate markings for the gun to be used in, which has a black powder igniter in a small bag sewn to the bottom. All except the Type 11 contain a small piece of lead tinfoil to act as a de-coppering agent.
Two explosive projectiles are known, the oldest being the 13 Year Type which is readily identified by its large nose fuze. Although replaced by the later and much more common Type 94 explosive this projectile is known both in the 11 Year Infantry and Type 94 Tank gun cases. The Type 94 explosive uses the standard Type 93 fuze found on 20mm ammunition. A practice version of this projectile uses black powder instead of the picric acid/TNT filling on the full load.
All the other projectiles are armour-piercing, mostly with base fuzed explosive fillings, which begin with a 12 Year Type AP/HE. The full load for this has a TNT filling and uses the Type 12 base fuze. A practice version substitutes black powder for this explosive.
This was followed by a Type 94 AP/HE which had a picric acid filling and Type 94 base fuze, which is probably the commonest of all the AP projectiles. A practice version of this has the HE cavity filled with sand and closed by a metal plug instead of the fuze An alternative training load used, as far as is known, only in the Type 94 tank gun, was the Type 96 armour-piercing projectile. This was apparently a Type 12 with the long internal cavity filled with sand and metal base plug.
Finally, there is the Type 1 AP/HE projectile base on a similar German design which is noticeably shorter and more rounded in the olgive than the others. This has a filling of R.D.X. and paraffin wax and utilises the Type 1 base fuze.
In addition to the above, blanks are known for the 11 Year Infantry and Type 94 Tank guns. No details are forthcoming on these but they may have had no projectile and just a card and wad seal.
Attachments
BOUGAINVILLE
Well-Known Member
37 mm japanese land service rounds
Propellant:
Type 11th year infantry gun:
1.85 oz. of graphited smokeless powder in the form of flakes poured into the case and sealed with a cardboard closing disc.
Type 94 tank gun:
2.7 oz. of graphited smokeless powder in the form of rectangular flakes.
Type 94 antitank gun, type 98 gun, and type 100 tank gun:
4.3 ounces of graphited smokeless powder in the form of unitubular grains contained in a silk bag.
Type 97 antitank gun:
5.0 ounces of graphited smokeless powder in the form of short, cylindrical grains contained in a silk bag.
The markings on this ammunition follow two different systems, one of which replaced the other during the course of World War II. These systems are distinguishable by the position of the identification bands applied to the projectile, over the standard black as found on all Army large calibre ammunition.
Both early and late markings also included an indication of the projectile weight with reference to the quoted standard, such information being vital for artillery accuracy, as variations having to be allowed for in sighting. These markings incorporate plus or minus signs painted onto the body which indicate as follows:
+ + 1.5% to 2.5% overweight
+ 0.5% to 1.5% overweight
+ plus or minus 0.5%
.5% to 1.5% underweight
1.5% to 2.5% underweight
In addition to these all projectiles were stencilled in white with the date and place of filling. Stamped into the body may also be found a mark indicating where the projectile was manufactured.
Propellant:
Type 11th year infantry gun:
1.85 oz. of graphited smokeless powder in the form of flakes poured into the case and sealed with a cardboard closing disc.
Type 94 tank gun:
2.7 oz. of graphited smokeless powder in the form of rectangular flakes.
Type 94 antitank gun, type 98 gun, and type 100 tank gun:
4.3 ounces of graphited smokeless powder in the form of unitubular grains contained in a silk bag.
Type 97 antitank gun:
5.0 ounces of graphited smokeless powder in the form of short, cylindrical grains contained in a silk bag.
The markings on this ammunition follow two different systems, one of which replaced the other during the course of World War II. These systems are distinguishable by the position of the identification bands applied to the projectile, over the standard black as found on all Army large calibre ammunition.
Both early and late markings also included an indication of the projectile weight with reference to the quoted standard, such information being vital for artillery accuracy, as variations having to be allowed for in sighting. These markings incorporate plus or minus signs painted onto the body which indicate as follows:
+ + 1.5% to 2.5% overweight
+ 0.5% to 1.5% overweight
+ plus or minus 0.5%
.5% to 1.5% underweight
1.5% to 2.5% underweight
In addition to these all projectiles were stencilled in white with the date and place of filling. Stamped into the body may also be found a mark indicating where the projectile was manufactured.
Attachments
BOUGAINVILLE
Well-Known Member
37 mm japanese land service rounds
Well I hope that you liked all of that information and hope that it isn't an overkill. I will post two more tables dealing with arsenal and type markings early tomorrow morning when I capture them into photo format from my other computor.
Cheers,
BOUGAINVILLE:tinysmile_shy_t:
Well I hope that you liked all of that information and hope that it isn't an overkill. I will post two more tables dealing with arsenal and type markings early tomorrow morning when I capture them into photo format from my other computor.
Cheers,
BOUGAINVILLE:tinysmile_shy_t:
Attachments
BOUGAINVILLE
Well-Known Member
37 mm japanese land service rounds
Hi there,:tinysmile_shy_t:
This is the last two tables to paste concerning 37 mm case identification and arsenal markings.
If you are interested in info about the Japanese 37mm aircraft canon round just let me know and I will paste info on that as well.
If you also want info on Japanese 37 mm anti tank guns just let me know as I can provide that as well including on how to opperate and maintain them.
Hope all of this has been of interest to you.
Cheers,
BOUGAINVILLE:tinysmile_shy_t:
Hi there,:tinysmile_shy_t:
This is the last two tables to paste concerning 37 mm case identification and arsenal markings.
If you are interested in info about the Japanese 37mm aircraft canon round just let me know and I will paste info on that as well.
If you also want info on Japanese 37 mm anti tank guns just let me know as I can provide that as well including on how to opperate and maintain them.
Hope all of this has been of interest to you.
Cheers,
BOUGAINVILLE:tinysmile_shy_t:
Attachments
WOW that's brilliant, thanks so much for all that information, its often harder to find the info than the rounds themselves. I've read it once, now I'll read it again!!
Dave.
Hi,
Not much left for me to add that wasn't already covered in Bougainville's excellent answers and drawings (which I hadn't seen yet - did you make these yourself?); good stuff!
I've got quite a few docs on Japanese ammo, and typically NavSea OP 1667 tends to provide the most complete and correct information. It covers quite a lot of the 37x165R rounds, but I'm not certain if you've got any specific questions left?
If so, let me know and I'll have a look. Also, if you want, I can give you an excerpt of it, or the entire document.
Cheers,
Olafo
Not much left for me to add that wasn't already covered in Bougainville's excellent answers and drawings (which I hadn't seen yet - did you make these yourself?); good stuff!
I've got quite a few docs on Japanese ammo, and typically NavSea OP 1667 tends to provide the most complete and correct information. It covers quite a lot of the 37x165R rounds, but I'm not certain if you've got any specific questions left?
If so, let me know and I'll have a look. Also, if you want, I can give you an excerpt of it, or the entire document.
Cheers,
Olafo
BOUGAINVILLE
Well-Known Member
Hi Daryl,:tinysmile_shy_t:
Is there any more where you got that from? I think I found out where you got the Japanese Type 93 mine from and got one for myself out of China. Only cost me nearly $200 Australian dollars including postage which I thought was cheap compared to what one would pay for it here. It arrived safely as well. Aparrently the same chap can do the same with the "knee mortars" so thats next on my shopping list. Have you visited the Kiwi site www.militarianz.co.nz, give it a try as it is much like a smaller version of BOCN. Think that you will like it. Oh yea I just had the explosives inspector drop by and audited me. I think it was because I was on the books as applying to import some of my childhood collection from NZ. It actually was quite a enjoyable experiance an he went away with a couple of pages of positive notes for the record. Anyway will catch up with you sometime when there is a chance.
Cheers,
Robert:tinysmile_shy_t:
Is there any more where you got that from? I think I found out where you got the Japanese Type 93 mine from and got one for myself out of China. Only cost me nearly $200 Australian dollars including postage which I thought was cheap compared to what one would pay for it here. It arrived safely as well. Aparrently the same chap can do the same with the "knee mortars" so thats next on my shopping list. Have you visited the Kiwi site www.militarianz.co.nz, give it a try as it is much like a smaller version of BOCN. Think that you will like it. Oh yea I just had the explosives inspector drop by and audited me. I think it was because I was on the books as applying to import some of my childhood collection from NZ. It actually was quite a enjoyable experiance an he went away with a couple of pages of positive notes for the record. Anyway will catch up with you sometime when there is a chance.
Cheers,
Robert:tinysmile_shy_t:
I have attached some photos of some Jap 37mms. The round on the far left is supposedly an experimental aircraft round with a different type of rim. As the story goes, these all arrived in the U.S. when a New York State National Guard unit returned home from occupied Japan after WWII. Supposedly, they had found a box of projectiles and a box of cases in a factory, and each of the soldiers that wanted a round took one. These all turned up in different parts of N.Y. State and at least one made it to a cartridge collector in the Toronto Canada area. I'm wondering if anyone knows any more or different about this round?
The fuze is a hollow thick walled brass and has no internal parts. This projo has a separating disk that is screwed into the hollow projo on the same threads that the fuze screws into. The other projectiles I have seen (3 others) have all been the same, except they did not have the separating disk, and one of them did not have the red band above the rotaitng band. I have tried to show the characters on the headstamp.
Included is a Japanese factory sectioned round of another style. The tag is made of wood and is attached to a spring in the fuze. The characters are very faint on the tag.
Thanks,
John
The fuze is a hollow thick walled brass and has no internal parts. This projo has a separating disk that is screwed into the hollow projo on the same threads that the fuze screws into. The other projectiles I have seen (3 others) have all been the same, except they did not have the separating disk, and one of them did not have the red band above the rotaitng band. I have tried to show the characters on the headstamp.
Included is a Japanese factory sectioned round of another style. The tag is made of wood and is attached to a spring in the fuze. The characters are very faint on the tag.
Thanks,
John
