A drawing dated Sept 14, 1937, of the T2 projectile loaded in the experimental E2 37mm cartridge case for the M1924 gun. I have this case but with an AP shot projectile loaded in it. Have not seen this T2 projectile and now I wonder if the AP shot load is legitimate or not. It easily slips in and out of the case. I also have a drawing of the rimmed E1 bottlenecked case of the same timeframe, but it is in such bad condition most of it is illegible. It is loaded with the same T2 projectile. It was used in the T3 Colt Auto Gun.
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37mm Belted case
- Thread starter EODGUY
- Start date
saintlo990
Member
37 mm browning experimentals
The E1, E2 and E3 type 1 and 2 were a series of trial runs for the 37 mm HV Colt/Browning M1921, 1923, 1924 and 1925 antiaircraft guns. I have photos of the rimmed and belted cases loaded with the Mk 1 steel shell for proof and test firing. Also data cards on the ammunition. The ammunition was fired and then the cases rushed to colt for reloading, as they were short of cases. The T2 marked projectiles is seen with a French type SS fuse(and base tracer), a pointed unmarked fuse and a short fat fuse (Pd M74) developed later for the 37 mm SUbcaliber ammunition for the M1916 sub cal gun. The fuse shown on the diagraam is probably a step to the M50 and M56 type used on the 37mm aircraft cannon M4. THE DRAWING SHOWS A STANDARD LOADING, BUT ALMOST ALL THE LOADING I HAVE SEEN HAVE BEEN PROOF TYPES FOR 75% CHARGE OR 125% TESTS. The 37 MM AP round was not approved for the AT gun until after 1940, and for the aircraft gun even later.
The E1, E2 and E3 type 1 and 2 were a series of trial runs for the 37 mm HV Colt/Browning M1921, 1923, 1924 and 1925 antiaircraft guns. I have photos of the rimmed and belted cases loaded with the Mk 1 steel shell for proof and test firing. Also data cards on the ammunition. The ammunition was fired and then the cases rushed to colt for reloading, as they were short of cases. The T2 marked projectiles is seen with a French type SS fuse(and base tracer), a pointed unmarked fuse and a short fat fuse (Pd M74) developed later for the 37 mm SUbcaliber ammunition for the M1916 sub cal gun. The fuse shown on the diagraam is probably a step to the M50 and M56 type used on the 37mm aircraft cannon M4. THE DRAWING SHOWS A STANDARD LOADING, BUT ALMOST ALL THE LOADING I HAVE SEEN HAVE BEEN PROOF TYPES FOR 75% CHARGE OR 125% TESTS. The 37 MM AP round was not approved for the AT gun until after 1940, and for the aircraft gun even later.
charley777
Well-Known Member
37mm experimentals
Hello saintlo990
You mention that you have photos (and drawings?) of these rounds...
Could you please post them here?
I (and probably others) are very keen to see them.
Thanks very much
Hello saintlo990
You mention that you have photos (and drawings?) of these rounds...
Could you please post them here?
I (and probably others) are very keen to see them.
Thanks very much
saintlo990
Member
E1-2-3
I am now woking on Vol II (1914-1926) of my Book with some work on Vol III. (1927-1945) The drawings are almost finished of the Browning E 1 and E2 so I will try to finish them and get them to Gorden Sprague to print, because I cannot get the forum to take my graphics. The Browning drawings are being done at the present time and are going slower than I hoped, because work, my sons college, typing cookbook for a customer, and home repair all come first.
I am now woking on Vol II (1914-1926) of my Book with some work on Vol III. (1927-1945) The drawings are almost finished of the Browning E 1 and E2 so I will try to finish them and get them to Gorden Sprague to print, because I cannot get the forum to take my graphics. The Browning drawings are being done at the present time and are going slower than I hoped, because work, my sons college, typing cookbook for a customer, and home repair all come first.
Tony Williams
Well-Known Member
How can Vol I be purchased?
Photos of the T2 as HE and AP
Finally got a chance to shoot some photos.
Both projos are stamped exactly the same around the rotating band:
37MM. H.E. SH. T2 F.A. LOT 1 H.F.S. (Crossed cannons)
The Black projo is lettered 37 G, SHELL, T2 on one side and INERT, WITH, TRACER on the other side.
The dummy fuze is stamped:
FUZE DUMMY, E15 MOD
The AP version has a screw-in nose plug that is staked in place, and had the dummy base piece shown with the dummy fuze.
These rounds came from 2 separate sources 25 years apart.
The case with the holes drilled in it has no headstamp and appears to be unfired as it is too tight to seat a projectile. The other case is snug around either projo.
Finally got a chance to shoot some photos.
Both projos are stamped exactly the same around the rotating band:
37MM. H.E. SH. T2 F.A. LOT 1 H.F.S. (Crossed cannons)
The Black projo is lettered 37 G, SHELL, T2 on one side and INERT, WITH, TRACER on the other side.
The dummy fuze is stamped:
FUZE DUMMY, E15 MOD
The AP version has a screw-in nose plug that is staked in place, and had the dummy base piece shown with the dummy fuze.
These rounds came from 2 separate sources 25 years apart.
The case with the holes drilled in it has no headstamp and appears to be unfired as it is too tight to seat a projectile. The other case is snug around either projo.
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Thanks Dave! I was really happy when Bob posted the drawing and started this thread. With the compression on the file, I can't see any details in the drawing, but I'm wondering if the lettering on the projectile ( H.E. SH.) means HE or SHOT (AP), depending if it has the AP nose installed or not. I'm hoping EODGUY or saintlo990 can shed a little more light on the subject.
saintlo990
Member
37mm E2
Looking over some test reports on the 37mm Browning 1924 E show that the cases were first fired with the Steel shell Mk I sand loaded at 75% charge. Then with 110% charge. (It actually measured 115% and the barrel bulged). I have seen the cases also marked 125%. (They had 400 cases). Then with apparently inert T2 projectiles (referred to a a hollow AP or a non HE AP- a new term) They were also test firing the 37 mm Baldwin up until 1923/24. It used the M1916 case (37 x 92R) using a turned steel dummy copy of the French 1916 "D" shell, it had a U.S. Driggs rotating band, A separate dummy tracer and an INTEGRAL dummy SS French fuse. The case is Stenciled AUTO GUN on the side. The dummy projectile was probably the insiration for the T2 but with a Sabethe type fuse.
Looking over some test reports on the 37mm Browning 1924 E show that the cases were first fired with the Steel shell Mk I sand loaded at 75% charge. Then with 110% charge. (It actually measured 115% and the barrel bulged). I have seen the cases also marked 125%. (They had 400 cases). Then with apparently inert T2 projectiles (referred to a a hollow AP or a non HE AP- a new term) They were also test firing the 37 mm Baldwin up until 1923/24. It used the M1916 case (37 x 92R) using a turned steel dummy copy of the French 1916 "D" shell, it had a U.S. Driggs rotating band, A separate dummy tracer and an INTEGRAL dummy SS French fuse. The case is Stenciled AUTO GUN on the side. The dummy projectile was probably the insiration for the T2 but with a Sabethe type fuse.
saintlo990
Member
37 mm E2
I was reviewed test data on the 37 mm Browning M1924E and found the following: the First firing tests used the E2 CASE LOADED WITH THE 37 MM STEEL SHELL MK I (INERT) AT 75% charge- marked on case. the second series was the same with 110% charge also marked. (It actually measured 115% and slightly bulged the barrel.) A series using a 125% was tested later. I do not know if they actually changed the barrel but modifications were being constantly made to the barrel, jacket and feed. Both a pre production projectile as well as the inert Mk I were also used in these tests. The next projectile did not have a "E or T" number that I could find, but looked like the 37 mm M1916 M 94 fuse and projectile. The T2 series was running concurently and was probably developed from the turned steel dummy copies of the French 1916 "D" shell with a dummy tracer. The dummy was tested in the 37 mm Baldwin auto gun, and the case(37 x 92R) was marked AUTO GUN on the side. The dummy had a U.S. Driggs type Navy rotating band instead of the double French type. There were at least 40 unnumbered Super Sensatve fuses made up and loaded at Picantinny Arsenal. ( possibly only a few of each) Please note that the U.S. Airservice projectiles were marked INERT on these projectiles but they were loaded into live cases and could be dangerous. A Colt employee was killed when showing a cyling demo when he loaded when he thought was an "Inert round" into the gun. This is why you later have holes in the dummy cases, and a blue practice marking.
I was reviewed test data on the 37 mm Browning M1924E and found the following: the First firing tests used the E2 CASE LOADED WITH THE 37 MM STEEL SHELL MK I (INERT) AT 75% charge- marked on case. the second series was the same with 110% charge also marked. (It actually measured 115% and slightly bulged the barrel.) A series using a 125% was tested later. I do not know if they actually changed the barrel but modifications were being constantly made to the barrel, jacket and feed. Both a pre production projectile as well as the inert Mk I were also used in these tests. The next projectile did not have a "E or T" number that I could find, but looked like the 37 mm M1916 M 94 fuse and projectile. The T2 series was running concurently and was probably developed from the turned steel dummy copies of the French 1916 "D" shell with a dummy tracer. The dummy was tested in the 37 mm Baldwin auto gun, and the case(37 x 92R) was marked AUTO GUN on the side. The dummy had a U.S. Driggs type Navy rotating band instead of the double French type. There were at least 40 unnumbered Super Sensatve fuses made up and loaded at Picantinny Arsenal. ( possibly only a few of each) Please note that the U.S. Airservice projectiles were marked INERT on these projectiles but they were loaded into live cases and could be dangerous. A Colt employee was killed when showing a cyling demo when he loaded when he thought was an "Inert round" into the gun. This is why you later have holes in the dummy cases, and a blue practice marking.
Tony Williams
Well-Known Member
Sorry to revive such an old thread, but I've been trying to find out about 1920s US 37mm gun and ammo development, particularly in relation to AFVs. The Cunningham T1 series of light tanks, developed through the 1920s, were available with various armament fits, including two (or maybe three) different 37mm guns. One was the M1916 short-barrelled trench gun (in 37x94R); one was the M1924 semi-automatic gun of Browning design (which eventually led to the M4 aircraft gun in the P-39 fighter); and there may also have been a third Browning gun with a longer barrel.
Until I was pointed towards this thread, the only clue I had to the ammo used in the M1924 was Hawkinson's lists, which include a 37x124B identified as Mod E2 Auto Gun (M1924), which I take it is the one shown in this thread (thanks to EODGUY and HAZORD for posting the illustrations). Does anyone have any data on projectile weights and muzzle velocities?
Also, does anyone have any idea what the longer-barrelled 37mm gun and its ammo might be? The Wiki entry on the T1 Cunningham identifies is as the M5 L/50 - but the M5 didn't emerge until the very end of the 1930s.
Until I was pointed towards this thread, the only clue I had to the ammo used in the M1924 was Hawkinson's lists, which include a 37x124B identified as Mod E2 Auto Gun (M1924), which I take it is the one shown in this thread (thanks to EODGUY and HAZORD for posting the illustrations). Does anyone have any data on projectile weights and muzzle velocities?
Also, does anyone have any idea what the longer-barrelled 37mm gun and its ammo might be? The Wiki entry on the T1 Cunningham identifies is as the M5 L/50 - but the M5 didn't emerge until the very end of the 1930s.
Just came across a related thread and figured it would be good to tie into this thread, here: http://www.bocn.co.uk/vbforum/threads/70711-US-WW1-1-457-Unusual-Shell-Case
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