37mm Cow gun cases

[tigbrand]

Hi chaps,in an armourer issue years ago,J Carlin mentions that there seem to be a few 37mm COW gun cases around which have grooves machined about half way up the case. Ive just got one with said grooves of which there are 3. Is this trench art?? OR is it a service addition to differentiate between the COW gun ammo at 37mm and 40mm 2pdr ammo? The cow gun was used as a stop gap in WW2,just a thought but ive seen a fair few now,any ideas? They could be removed to leave a mint case,as it was cheap. Cheers in advance.Tig.(No pics as camera on strike!)

 

[charley777]

Hello Tigbrand,
How would you remove the grooves?
I have one of these cases too.
Would be great if it was an "official modification" rather than spoilage.
Charley

 

[Gspragge]

An interesting question as there does seem to be a lot of these.

 

[kahu1]

Sounds like a nice idea, but wouldn't it create a weakness in the case ,possibly causing a case seperation?
I've seen a few of these too, wasn't the cow gun used by the navy too?.
maybe - soldier/sailors idle time,needle file(nail file),1930s art deco style grooves,send one home to mother...?

cheers
Bob

 

[tigbrand]

Cheers for the replies chaps,Charley yes it would be nice if its service issue,the grooves are I guess 0.5mm deep so wouldnt i think weaken the case?? But would be easy to turn off in a lathe without ruining the case for your collection.Im sure theres more to these cases than just trench art Bob,Its always the same type of design and nearly always on COW cases. It wont be till next week now but will measure position of grooves on case and report back,perhaps you could do your case too charley?cheers for the input,Tig.

 

[charley777]

Hello all
I have the case at home so cannot measure the grooves yet.
However i have a photo available.
Yes i have seen 2 or 3 of these that look identical so something's going on.

PS yes i know that the projectile is German 3.7cm PaK.
Anyone have a spare of the correct type?:tinysmile_shy_t:

 

[charley777]

Location of grooves on 37x190 COW case

OK so i have measured the positions of the grooves in my case.See picture for details. It will be interesting to see if the cases of others have similarities. So what would one do to fix this? Braze and grind and polish???

 

[EOD]

PS yes i know that the projectile is German 3.7cm PaK.

Well, it is a Flak projectile...

 

[charley777]

Yes true, of course it is FlaK , . . . .thanks for reminding me EOD

 

[Falcon]

I have also seen plenty of these around. I agree that it seems that they are something more than trench art.

 

[hangarman]

Don't some countries use 3 grooves on drill rounds?. Were COW guns used by other countries after WW1?
Hangarman

 

[Tony Williams]

I used to have one like that. I recall being told it was trench art, but it does seem odd if so many identical ones exist (unless some enterprising chap set up a production line to turn them into lamp holders, or something).

It wouldn't have been done to distinguish the COW from the 2 pr though, as the rounds were very different in appearance.

 

[mach1bang]

Hi Tig, I saw one of these at Stoneliegh about 3 years ago with a 1 pounder proj in it. I seem to remember it had 2 lines about 1/4 inch apart and a single line
2 to 3 inches lower. If the proj had been correct I would have bought it even with lines.
Carlins comments on this in the Armourer says , they may be some sort of decoration for obsolete cases released after the war. But he to is puzzeled.
Cheers Tim.
PS I would leave them if it was mine, its part of that cases history.

 

[tigbrand]

Hi chaps,thanks for the replies,am i correct in thinking France used this weapon?? The COW and 2 pounder rounds looks different to us all Tony because we spend half our lives looking at the bloody things! but you are correct. Tim, I think were all after the projectiles! The only possible trench art connection could be the likes of Army and Navy stores who produced a lot of commercially made souveniers i believe? Perhaps they bought a large batch.Pics of mine atattched. Tig

 

[tigbrand]

case

Pics attatched

 

[2pounder]

I've seen them with lines on and always thought them to be becorative as the cases had a pair of handles to make them into vases or candle holders. The big question is what year and lot no. are the lined ones.

 

[Tony Williams]

Hi chaps,thanks for the replies,am i correct in thinking France used this weapon??

The French were interested and IIRC placed orders but the war ended before production got underway, after which everyting more or less stopped so the French never got any. Only three or four guns were actually fitted to service aircraft by the end of the war (upward-firing, in D.H.4 2-seaters) but it seems almost certainly too late for them to fire a shot in anger. Since lots of parts had been made it was decided to complete a few dozen guns which were installed in various planes in the 1920s (mostly aimed by a gunner in multi-engined planes, but also in fixed upward-firing mountings in a couple of purpose-designed single-seat fighters). Early in WW2 the remaining COW guns were considered for emergency installation on planes for anti-invasion work (shooting up German barges and tanks) but it was decided that the ammo was too old to be reliable. They finished their days as airfield defence guns, although I don't know if they ever fired a shot in anger. They were finally declared obsolete in 1948 (this is all from memory - I'm away from my sources at the moment - so is open to correction).

However, the COW gun was the starting point for the development of the Vickers 40mm Class S aircraft gun, which did of course use ammo based on the naval 2 pr pom-pom.

 

[Gspragge]

More COWs ~

French Headstamp and another with no room left by EOC, Model of Airfield defense truck.

This didn't come out in order ? Added three more images of 1930s experimental Aircraft, Gawd what a mess !

 

[Falcon]

Gspragge, did you notice that the primer on your British case is dated 1929. If it is the original the case must have been reloaded in 1929. Also, that French headstamp is very nice, I didn't know it existed.

 

[Gspragge]

Casing isn't mine but it would be original, they mucked around with and made new projectiles into ww2 for these.