38.5x197 Nordenfelt

[SG500]

According to the Hawkinson list this is a 38.5x197 Nordenfelt case.
Rim 58.9mm
Unfortunately silver coated. Decorated with "1 1/2 pdr" on the side.
Does anyone have any information regarding projectile types please?
Thanks.
Dave.

 

[Darkman]

Looks like a 1 & 1/2” Nordenfelt

 

[Alpini]

Those are from an Argentine book:

 

[ron3350]

According to the Hawkinson list this is a 38.5x197 Nordenfelt case.
Rim 58.9mm
Unfortunately silver coated. Decorated with "1 1/2 pdr" on the side.
Does anyone have any information regarding projectile types please?
Thanks.

Dave. Type in 1 1/2" Nordenfelt as a query and I showed 5 variations of projectiles and headstamps of these rounds on June 30 2025.

These were used by the Australian Navy and I was told a gun is somewhere in Qld/NSW . They are 1 1/2" and not 1 1/2 pr.
I think the gun was also marked as 1 1/2" but too long ago to remember who told me ths info.

 

[15 inch]

Twenty 1.5in Nordenfelts were procured by Australia in about 1884.

4 went to Queensland for the gunboats Paluma and Gayundah, and one survives as a Brisbane war memorial gun.

12 went to the NSW Garrison Artillery for defending Sydney Harbour, Newcastle and Wollongong.
Newcastle's remains fireable in its casemate and Wollongong's is rusted solid but in its original emplacement.

4 went to the NSW Naval Brigade's Naval Artillery Volunteers and were installed for defending a large calibre casemate at Obelisk Bay near Sydney Harbour's Middle Head. These guns and remaining ammo were transferred to the Commonwealth Naval Forces in 1906. They were thereafter used by small vessels impressed into RAN service during WW1. Of these, No.4098 remains restored and functional.

All Australian imported cartridge cases had the 'N' headstamp and there were two projectile types, both base fused. One looks like a thicker walled common
and the other is a copper plated thinner walled HE. I'll post a couple of photos later.

.

 

[Alpini]

They are 1 1/2" and not 1 1/2 pr.

Isn't 1 1/2" = 37 mm? The case shown here 38mm?

 

[Darkman]

Isn't 1 1/2" = 37 mm? The case shown here 38mm?

1.5” is 38mm (38.1mm). Hawkinson is wrong in specifying 38.5mm. These Nordenfelt cases are not part of the 37mm family

 

[15 inch]

Here are some pics of the two projectile variants seen in Australia.

The black steel proj in marked N89 with another N. One N stands for Nordenfelt (manufactured in 1889?), but does the other indicate N for Navy? It has a 1 inch x 12 TPI fuze thread, and the explosive cavity is a continuation of the minor thread diameter (23.2mm)



The copper plated proj is unmarked and has the same 1 in x 12TPI fuze pocket. This is the same as 1in UNC but UNC had not been invented until post WW2 I think. Thread form might be either 55 deg as per Whitworth or maybe 60 deg? Although the black steel and coppered projectiles are the same length, the copper one sits further into the case. The explosive cavity is marginally larger in the copper coated as the diameter is a continuation of the major thread diameter 25.4mm.


Some better pics of the gun.





As you can see, gun was referred to as 1 1/2 In.


There is also another survivor at the AWM which is in quite complete and good condition.

 

[SG500]

1.5” is 38mm (38.1mm). Hawkinson is wrong in specifying 38.5mm. These Nordenfelt cases are not part of the 37mm family

Yes to confirm, I tried a 37mm projectile in it and the case mouth was far too big.
Great information everyone, thank you for responding.
Dave.

 

[Alpini]

It seems they used 1 1/2" designation for different calibers. Because 1.475 calculates to 37 mm. Really confusing.

From "Maxim Nordenfelt Guns 1891"

 

[Darkman]

Here are some pics of the two projectile variants seen in Australia.

There are 2 different lengths in the copper coated projectile.

I believe the N89 stamp refers to the model of 1889, rather than a manufacture year, as all black projectiles have this stamp.

The base fuze thread would be Whitworth form.

Graeme