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4.6x30mm
- Thread starter exat808
- Start date
TonyE
HONOURED MEMBER RIP
Interesting. AFAIK, the only British military use of the 4.6x30mm is the MOD Police, but there may be other users.
The title of "Action" round suggests that it is made by DAG, as "Action" is one of the trade names for their series of 9mm expanding ammunition for law enforcement use. I can't comment on what the "Steel" rounds might be other than perhaps a semi-AP type to defeat body armour. I don't have one, but I seem to remember seeing something about a round of that nature.
I only have two different types of British made ball round and a drill round.
Regards
TonyE
The title of "Action" round suggests that it is made by DAG, as "Action" is one of the trade names for their series of 9mm expanding ammunition for law enforcement use. I can't comment on what the "Steel" rounds might be other than perhaps a semi-AP type to defeat body armour. I don't have one, but I seem to remember seeing something about a round of that nature.
I only have two different types of British made ball round and a drill round.
Regards
TonyE
I think these are probably the two cartridges refered to...although I didn't know that they had been allocated 'L' codes.
This cartridge came out of a box labeled 'Super Combat' and as far as I'm aware this is another name for for the Action load.
This second cartridge came from a box simply labeled 4.6mm Ball but it is clearly a two-part bullet and the front part appears to be turned from solid steel. I think it's also coated with molybdenum.
A bit of a guess on my part but I'd say the L3A1 Ball rounds are intended for target use while the L2A1 Super Combat/Action rounds are for use against people.
Jim
This cartridge came out of a box labeled 'Super Combat' and as far as I'm aware this is another name for for the Action load.
This second cartridge came from a box simply labeled 4.6mm Ball but it is clearly a two-part bullet and the front part appears to be turned from solid steel. I think it's also coated with molybdenum.
A bit of a guess on my part but I'd say the L3A1 Ball rounds are intended for target use while the L2A1 Super Combat/Action rounds are for use against people.
Jim
Not made in UK but firstly type classified within the NATO. Two different things.
Tony Williams
Well-Known Member
Thanks for the L numbers, I didn't know them.
Radway Green were involved with HK in developing the 4.6x30 and carried out the initial production, but when other ammo manufacturers joined in it became uneconomic (RG are only interested in orders with lots of noughts) so they stopped making them years ago.
AFAIK 4.6x30 ammo is made by RUAG, Fiocchi, Sellier & Bellot and Hornady. Allegiance Ammo in the USA are also marketing some loadings.
The official loadings developed, as listed by HK, are the following:
Ultimate Combat (2 gram copper-plated solid-steel) which is the current standard, replacing the earlier Combat Steel (1.7g); Copper-plated Lead (2.5g); FMJ (3.2g); SP (2.6g); Police (2 g "solid deformation bullet"; penetrates soft body armour, plus expands); Spoon nose (1.7g); Tracer (2g; Subsonic (5g); Copper training (2g solid copper); Hard Frangible (2g sintered metal powder for training); Soft Frangible (2g moulded plastic/metal dust, for combat use where penetration needs to be avoided); Blank; Drill.
The "Action" designation is used by RUAG for their version of the Police round (ACTION SX - Sintox non-toxic primer, lead-free copper/zinc expanding bullet weighing 2.0g and fired at 690 m/s; will not penetrate more than 30 cm of ballistic gel at 25 m). They also make AP SX (copper-plated steel bullet, same ballistics); FMJ SX (lead/tin core in steel jacket plated with copper alloy; 2.6g at 620 m/s); Training SX (tin alloy frangible) and a blank round. A copper-matrix frangible round is under development. I suspect that RUAG are the current suppliers to the British, who have recently relied on them for 5.56mm ammo while RG is out of production.
I doubt that ayone has made the spoon-tip - the British wouldn't buy it, for legal reasons (It is expressly forbidden to employ arms, projectiles or material calculated to cause unnecessary suffering such as irregularly-shaped bullets.
[United Kingdom, The Law of War on Land being Part III of the Manual of Military Law, The War Office, HMSO, 1958)
RG has been making nothing but 5.56mm and 7.62mm for some time. They aren't actually making anything at all at the moment, since the ancient small-arms factory was flattened a couple of years ago. It has been rebuilt, but won't be producing any new ammo for some months yet.
Radway Green were involved with HK in developing the 4.6x30 and carried out the initial production, but when other ammo manufacturers joined in it became uneconomic (RG are only interested in orders with lots of noughts) so they stopped making them years ago.
AFAIK 4.6x30 ammo is made by RUAG, Fiocchi, Sellier & Bellot and Hornady. Allegiance Ammo in the USA are also marketing some loadings.
The official loadings developed, as listed by HK, are the following:
Ultimate Combat (2 gram copper-plated solid-steel) which is the current standard, replacing the earlier Combat Steel (1.7g); Copper-plated Lead (2.5g); FMJ (3.2g); SP (2.6g); Police (2 g "solid deformation bullet"; penetrates soft body armour, plus expands); Spoon nose (1.7g); Tracer (2g; Subsonic (5g); Copper training (2g solid copper); Hard Frangible (2g sintered metal powder for training); Soft Frangible (2g moulded plastic/metal dust, for combat use where penetration needs to be avoided); Blank; Drill.
The "Action" designation is used by RUAG for their version of the Police round (ACTION SX - Sintox non-toxic primer, lead-free copper/zinc expanding bullet weighing 2.0g and fired at 690 m/s; will not penetrate more than 30 cm of ballistic gel at 25 m). They also make AP SX (copper-plated steel bullet, same ballistics); FMJ SX (lead/tin core in steel jacket plated with copper alloy; 2.6g at 620 m/s); Training SX (tin alloy frangible) and a blank round. A copper-matrix frangible round is under development. I suspect that RUAG are the current suppliers to the British, who have recently relied on them for 5.56mm ammo while RG is out of production.
I doubt that ayone has made the spoon-tip - the British wouldn't buy it, for legal reasons (It is expressly forbidden to employ arms, projectiles or material calculated to cause unnecessary suffering such as irregularly-shaped bullets.
[United Kingdom, The Law of War on Land being Part III of the Manual of Military Law, The War Office, HMSO, 1958)
RG has been making nothing but 5.56mm and 7.62mm for some time. They aren't actually making anything at all at the moment, since the ancient small-arms factory was flattened a couple of years ago. It has been rebuilt, but won't be producing any new ammo for some months yet.
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Tony Williams
Well-Known Member
Sorry Tony, I don't. I'll have to ask next time I'm there...
There is a UK classification listing for the 4.6x30mm Spoon Nosed Round - UN0012 packed in H83 or M2A1 containers with an obscure RG reference number included.
What is a spoon tip ?? as ive i found mention that there are two types for this type of round in an early post by TonyE from 2009 about these rounds and have no idea what they are.....
post no5 http://www.bocn.co.uk/vbforum/threads/60169-4-6x30mm-v-5-7x28mm-Ammunition
Tony Williams
Well-Known Member
The first time I heard of spoon tips was in the HK/CETME joint effort, the 4.6x36 round for the HK-36 lightweight assault rifle (not to be confused with the 5.56mm HK G36). I think that the Lffelspitz bullet was adopted as standard for that. The weapon was marketed (around the 1980s?) but no-one bought it.
Somewhat counter-intuitively, the asymmetric nose apparently doesn't affect the flight path of the bullet.