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.450 Martini Henry commercial round but why green paper patch?

R

Rrickoshae

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
good morning, I wonder if anyone can advise me of the significance of the green paper patch to this .450 Martini Henry round. Its a standard commercial headstamp - Kynoch .450/577. I am familiar with white & orange patches but not green.

any thoughts?

many thanks, Dave
 

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Dave, this is Ball, Carbine, Cordite, Mk I and was most likely for military contract circa 1903. It was loaded with a 410gn bullet and had a 34gn charge.
Jim
 
Jimiles said:
Dave, this is Ball, Carbine, Cordite, Mk I and was most likely for military contract circa 1903. It was loaded with a 410gn bullet and had a 34gn charge.
Jim
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Many thanks for that Jim, but would the it have had the commercial style headstamp if it was a military load? It came with an assortment of old military & commercial rounds

Dave
 
Hmmmm, not sure. My understanding is that this commercially-marked ammunition was bought by the Government to make up any shortfall but I can't find any documentary evidence to back that up. Perhaps Roger M. will chime in and clarify?
Jim
 
Jimiles said:
Hmmmm, not sure. My understanding is that this commercially-marked ammunition was bought by the Government to make up any shortfall but I can't find any documentary evidence to back that up. Perhaps Roger M. will chime in and clarify?
Jim
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OK Jim, thank you for that - I'm sure Roger won't be able to resist commenting!

Dave
 
I hope he does! I have the same cartridge and, based on whatever info I might have found years ago, I've catalogued mine as being for military contract.
 
Hi all,

Having looked at Peter Labbett's book on British military ammunition, and spoken to a fellow collector of British ammo, who has been collecting and researching for far longer than me, I believe that this Cordite load for the carbine is strictly commercial. The military ones were admittedly only made by the Trade (mostly Birmingham Metals & Munitions, and Kynoch), but had either military-style headstamps (e.g., K C I) or were unheadstamped.

The commercial ones are not too uncommon, and can sometimes be found in their red & yellow commercial packets, but I have not managed to find a proper military one in 30 years of collecting!

Regards,
Roger.
 
Tony Williams said:
Hi Dave - should that be .577/450?
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you mean because the manufacturers call it that, it must be? If I'm not mistaken Tony, Rover always advertised their cars as the best thing since sliced bread - it didn't necessarily mean they were! I prefer generalities, I feel safer there. Is it a .577 necked down to .450 or is it a .450 necked down from a .577?

Dave!
 
Rrickoshae said:
you mean because the manufacturers call it that, it must be? If I'm not mistaken Tony, Rover always advertised their cars as the best thing since sliced bread - it didn't necessarily mean they were! I prefer generalities, I feel safer there. Is it a .577 necked down to .450 or is it a .450 necked down from a .577?

Dave!
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That wasn't my point, Dave - I was just asking (for someone else - it's a micro-calibre by my standards!) what the headstamp actually is.
 
hi Tony, its 'Kynoch 577/450'. It came with an assortment of military & commercial rounds so there wasn't a trend that gave a clue to its origin, it has no primer. Dave
 
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