47mm 2-1/2 Pdr rounds

[HAZORD]

I've been organizing things lately and put all the 2-1/2 Pdr rounds together for a family photo. From L to R

Jap with Jap characters on the rotating band
Jap with EOC case with Jap character on case
French with Hotchkiss marked projo
Hotchkiss w/coiled case
Hotchkiss canister The little cap comes off of the tip
Hungarian Budapest marked case
U.S. 1898 UMC case, 1892 projectile and 1894 fuze

If anyone knows any details regarding sales of these guns and ammo to the Japanese, especially Elswick Ordnance Co. materials, I would greatly appreciate hearing about it.

John

 

[US-Subs]

John,
I haven't had a chance to look for myself, but have you checked Ken Elks' new book on Japanese small stuff? His research on areas I've checked has been very good and in-depth. I'm pretty sure his second volume runs through 47mm. JO

 

[Gspragge]

Stunning ----------------

The Canister is particulaly rare, I think also issued for arial use in WW1 if in a French case, maybe Px.

 

[SG500]

Very nice rounds John, thanks for showing them.
Dave.

 

[HAZORD]

Jeff: I don't have Ken Elks book(s) and I don't know where to get a copy.

Gordon: The canister is in a Hotchkiss case. Thanks for the info.

 

[Gspragge]

Very Nice

In a Hotchkiss case it is likely as sold by them to any one. This is certainly likely if the Japanese bought these along with the other kinds. I think the ones In French service might be in a Puteaux case (army) or other French Arsenals for the Navy. The kinds used in the air are the D shell design with a boat tail body shape with Sensitive fuse or Double action PD fuse.
The 37mm size is the same shape but smaller, I have never heard of one in any collection.

 

[fert]

ciao
thanks for sharing

here austrian

 

[dano1917]

John, really nice presentation of some awesome shells. Well done..Dan

 

[Gspragge]

Austrian 47mm

That lower grooved band , I have seen that on Italian 37mm ? Will add image later.

 

[HAZORD]

Hey Fert,

Thanks for showing yours. I really like the photo of the revolver cannon in the mountains! I was just going through a book from the Military Museum of Finnland, and I guess they had some guns that had come from Japan.

 

[Gspragge]

Image of two Italian 37mm

Note the band design. I have seen the one with grooved lower band on another image of period Italian rounds. So is the 47mm version Austrian or captured Italian ? Or made by a third party ? for both.

 

[leeski]

great pictures john nice collection

regards lee

 

[fert]

@ Gspragge
design it's similar to italian 37mm hotchkiss shells, but italians never adopt the 47mm revolver cannon.
only some captured austrian guns
here bersaglieri on Pal Piccolo 1916

 

[Gspragge]

Here is a picture of some Italian 37mm

Shows the lower grooved band. On my previous image of two projectiles can any one identify the manufacter's (these are not mine) VS in the oval might be Vikers (&) Sons ? Could the 47mm be an imported projectile from the UK ?

 

[tigbrand]

Vsm

Hi Gordon, The Logo on the 37mm on the right is VSM in circle. Vickers were involved in munitions manufacture in Italy as Vickers/Terni. Perhaps thats the connection although that might be later in time,or it might be a contract round??My memory is giving up!:tinysmile_fatgrin_t

 

[Gspragge]

I enlarged the mark

It looks like V S in an oval, which would predate VS&M, if such a mark was used by the firm. How I wonder is the 47mm version marked if it is ?

 

[shelldude]

47mm Revolving cannon rounds...

Hello John,

What a fabulous collection of 47mm revolving cannon rounds. The BEST I've ever seen! I ESPECIALLY like your PD low explosive round in the UMC casing. What a beauty!

Best regards,

Randall

 

[HAZORD]

Randall,

Thanks! I don't have any info on the U.S. 2-1/2 Pdr. I got it back in 1985, and the original owner had already passed on. The MK IX came from the same guy.

John

 

[fert]

ciao
italians made many design of 37mm hotchkiss shell

Vickers-Tern only made guns, not ammunition.

I think VS in oval was the name of the controller, like german waffen amt.

here you can see other inspector stamped on shell or driving bands. it's easy find these markings on italian ammunition. other are PG, BP, AA, SL many of these are unknown.
the letter are the initial of the inspector name an surname, so PG could means Paolo Giovannini for example.
kind regards

 

[Gspragge]

Excellent !

Thank you for that.

The Austrian 47mm & Italian 37mm with the grooved lower band , could they be a common maker and both imported ? The Italian having an Italian Inspectors mark. How is the Austrian marked ?