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6 Pdr QF gun site.
- Thread starter tigbrand
- Start date
Quatermass
Well-Known Member
6 pdr 8cwt (2.244"/57mm L40)
Quatermass
Well-Known Member
Steel shell. (anyone know the difference between common and steel shells?)
"Common shell" in British terminology referred to a shell filled with gunpowder, with a nose fuze, intended to blow things up and set fire to them : i.e. incendiary + weak HE. Were obsolete by WWI & replaced by "Common Lyydite" & proper HE, but a few still existed in 1914.
Steel shell. (anyone know the difference between common and steel shells?)
"Steel shell" was what the British called a small semi-armour-piercing shell with a heavy nose and base fuze, such as this Hotchkiss shell. Halfway between a "Common pointed" shell, which was similar but not armour-piercing, and a proper AP shell. Steel shell were intended for attacking the unarmoured superstructure of small vessels such as torpedo boats.
Rod
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Quatermass
Well-Known Member
Hello rcbutcher,
Base fuzed, pointed projectiles for the 3 and 6 PR are referred to as 'common' in various manuals/references.
I believe its the material they are made from, rather than the shape, that makes them common. (cast iron?)
I could be wrong on this!
Quatermass
P.S. I was! :tinysmile_cry_t3:
Base fuzed, pointed projectiles for the 3 and 6 PR are referred to as 'common' in various manuals/references.
I believe its the material they are made from, rather than the shape, that makes them common. (cast iron?)
I could be wrong on this!
Quatermass
P.S. I was! :tinysmile_cry_t3:
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another difference is -
Common shells are point fused with cast iron or steel bodies, Common Shell base fused equivalents have a flat tip, that is the easy way to tell them apart. These are the basic blowing things up and fragmenting explosive types of the day for common use. Some armies services used point fuses, others preferred base fuses, either way they did the same thing. The flat tip is to conform to the ballistics of the point fused shell which is also flat. This runs true in the 1890s, later if pointed base fused projectiles are considered common shell, then perhaps the flat tipped projectile had been discontinued as perhaps it was pointless to keep it in service ( Sorry for the bad Pun - I could get kicked off for that !) when the pointed base fused AP would do the same. These cast common shell are an economy thing, if the AP shell could be made for the same there would be little reason to continue making them. The smaller flat tipped projectiles in 37mm mostly the German tracer AA shell is often called an AP projectile, it is nothing of the sort, it is merely shaped to conform to the PD version. Images are from 1894 American Ordnance Co catalogue , the products are Hotchkiss Patent types.
Common shells are point fused with cast iron or steel bodies, Common Shell base fused equivalents have a flat tip, that is the easy way to tell them apart. These are the basic blowing things up and fragmenting explosive types of the day for common use. Some armies services used point fuses, others preferred base fuses, either way they did the same thing. The flat tip is to conform to the ballistics of the point fused shell which is also flat. This runs true in the 1890s, later if pointed base fused projectiles are considered common shell, then perhaps the flat tipped projectile had been discontinued as perhaps it was pointless to keep it in service ( Sorry for the bad Pun - I could get kicked off for that !) when the pointed base fused AP would do the same. These cast common shell are an economy thing, if the AP shell could be made for the same there would be little reason to continue making them. The smaller flat tipped projectiles in 37mm mostly the German tracer AA shell is often called an AP projectile, it is nothing of the sort, it is merely shaped to conform to the PD version. Images are from 1894 American Ordnance Co catalogue , the products are Hotchkiss Patent types.
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Quatermass
Well-Known Member
Thanks Gspragge, excellent response.
I realised shortly after writing my post that common rounds could be made of steel and not just cast iron.
Ill have another short in the dark and suggest that common shells are just that, for normal, non specialised targets?
What I can say is that they could be pointed or nose fused, cast iron or steel, black powder or HE filled.
Quatermass
I realised shortly after writing my post that common rounds could be made of steel and not just cast iron.
Ill have another short in the dark and suggest that common shells are just that, for normal, non specialised targets?
What I can say is that they could be pointed or nose fused, cast iron or steel, black powder or HE filled.
Quatermass
Treatise on Ammunition 1915 makes the point that in British usage, Common Shell refers to a nose-fused shell, its base-fused equivalent was referred to as Common Pointed.
However - the QF 2.95 inch "Double Shell" was base fused, similar to a Hotchkiss Steel Shell, but was referred to as a Common Shell : indeed, it had a flattened nose :
The names do appear important as they effectively specify the type of target it could attack. Common shells, with nose fuses, could not really penetrate much. Common pointed, having a solid nose, could penetrate light fortification or construction - the benefit of a base fuse was also that it could delay explosion to allow time for penetration.
Looking at the much heavier nose and body of a Steel Shell, it is obviously intended to penetrate fairly substantial resistance. I wnder whether "Steel" meant it could penetrate steel objects - such as naval superstructures.
Rod
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Quatermass
Well-Known Member
Another great reply, I wonder if the problem is that what common meant changed over time, combined with a confusion by authors and collectors over which terms to use.
As an example the British base fuzed 1 PR is often referred to as either common pointed or AP, although the correct title was steel shell (but again that title may have changed between introduction and obsolesce).
As you state C.P. was a later term, devised to differentiate between base and nose fuzed shells that had previously both been known as common shell.
Quatermass
As an example the British base fuzed 1 PR is often referred to as either common pointed or AP, although the correct title was steel shell (but again that title may have changed between introduction and obsolesce).
As you state C.P. was a later term, devised to differentiate between base and nose fuzed shells that had previously both been known as common shell.
Quatermass
I'm thinking that -
If the Ordnance powers that be decided a shell was a common shell they so called it, rather up to the whim of the period ! It does seem that these all are meant to explode and aren't specialized and could be used on anything but are more likely to demolish the sod hut rather than the armoured target. But then the common shell for one type of gun might be very different than the common shell for another ~ this may never end !~ If the manual calls it a common shell then it is I guess.
If the Ordnance powers that be decided a shell was a common shell they so called it, rather up to the whim of the period ! It does seem that these all are meant to explode and aren't specialized and could be used on anything but are more likely to demolish the sod hut rather than the armoured target. But then the common shell for one type of gun might be very different than the common shell for another ~ this may never end !~ If the manual calls it a common shell then it is I guess.