65mm x 165 case, any idea which coutry & weapon?

[Rrickoshae]

please see the attached photos of a 65 x 165mm case. I don't recognise the bold headstamps, Rs and what could be a stylised JL. There are other indistinct stampings which almost look as if they have been deliberately obscured and apart from what is probably a lot number, nothing else is clear. The primer is marked ECP 6 1925.

any thoughts please

regards, Dave

 

[stecol]

I think it's a case for french 65 mm mountain gun mod. 1906 (65x167R75)

 

[Rrickoshae]

thank you stecol, thank you for that. Anyone know who the manufacturer is?

regards, Dave

 

[doppz92]

Yes, this is a case for the French "Canon de 65mm de Montagne Mle 1906" see https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canon_de_65_mm_de_montagne

This case was reloaded and the head was reworked on a lathe before the reloading. This was done in the Ateliers de Construction de Rennes code Rs.

When first manufactured, the case head was reading at 12 o'clock "65 DE M" 65 de Montagne and at 6 o'clock the manufacturer's code, then a number followed by the letter L, then the date, then the metal supplier, i.e. ECP 234L 17 H (Ecole Centrale de Pyrotechnie 234th lot of 1917 Trefileries et Laminoirs du Havre)

The case was reloaded in or after 1925 and the primer was manufactured in Bourges by Ecole Centrale de Pyrotechnie, and although this name is misleading, this is a French manufacturing plant for ammunition: in WW1 during it's manufacturing peak it employed 12,000 people and was making 80,000 shells and some 40,000 fuses a day... They are still manufacturing shells and canons and is owned by Nexter.

I don"t know what the stylised JL means but it could be a H and stand for the "Trefileries et Laminoirs du Havre". May be a member can educate us?

DoppZ92

 

[Dandebur]

Hello.
To my knowledge, ARS (Atelier de Rennes ) is the only one manufacturer which produced cases of 65 DEM. I have never seen another. For sure, it is not a proof!
I have not the pictures of my cases but I can show scans of them.
Note that, at first the stamping was ARS 65 Me at 12 o'clock and lot number, year of manufacture, metal supplier at 6 o'clock. Then 65 DEM at 12 o'clock ARS, lot number, year and metal supplier at 6 o'clock.
During the years 1910, 1911, 1912 (partly) ARS used a date with four digits ( as on cases of 75 DEC). Probably in 1912 the L for Lot moved. It was first between the lot number and the year ( as for almost the whole manufactures) and then between ARS and the lot number. On cases of 75DEC made by ARS, this change took place during the year 1908.
Some cases of 65 DEM were, according to regulations, cut down to 110mm to be used as cartridges for a mortar. The majority of them have kept the original stamping but some rare examples are stamped MORTIER at 12 o'clock.( please see the last example on the scan2)
I have also an example with the date 1925, the same year of the primer of your. Perhaps a requirement of cases of 65 DEM appeared this year?
Regards,
Dandebur.View attachment Scan0001.pdfView attachment Scan0002.pdfView attachment Scan0003.pdf

 

[doppz92]

Sorry guys, I duplicated a message and apparently there's no way to remove it entirely...

 

[doppz92]

Thanks Dandebur for sharing your knowledge, very impressive, I was nearly right but not quite. This is what I (and almost all members I guess) love about this forum: you start a thread and you end up with a lot of discoveries.

Just one thing, do you happen to know what this stylised JL or H means?

DoppZ92

 

[Dandebur]

Sorry DoppZ92, I don't know what means this letter. For me, I read a H. I think we name these stylised letters " English capitals". On the scan2 , 4th place you can see a stylised R.
Dandebur.

 

[greif]

Two ammunition plates from a 1923 handbook.

 

[Rrickoshae]

thank you guys, who have thought you could get so much information from a few stamp marks. Well done & thank you

Dave