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70mm Rocket projectile

E

EODGUY

Well-Known Member
70mm 3.jpg70mm 5.jpg

I just posted a question on a 40mm round that is very similar to this item. This is a 70mm rocket assisted projectile experimental that again I have no information on. Overall length of the carrier is slightly over 18 inches. The projectile length is about 13 1/2 inches. There are two venturies on the round. Another item found on the same range clearance, but I can't provide any information on the item. Does anyone have some data? Bob
 
Bob,

Yes, my example is just like this one, except mine is unpainted and isn't sectioned. Can you tell me what range they were found on? I got my 38mm round and this one from a cartridge collector about 20 years ago. These evidently travel in pairs. The fuze is dated Feb of 56 and is marked Frankford Arsenal Experimental. The outer tube looks like a stainless forging that has been turned. There are 4 copper skid pads at 90 degree positions around the bottom outside wall of the motor section.
 

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Thanks. My fuze will not come out and there are no markings visible on the small portion I can see. At least I have a date now. Mine came at different times, but I don't even remember when I got them. Both found on a Redstone range, which makes sense.
 
Thanks for the great photos Bob and Hazord, very nice items.
Dave.
 
EOD,

My Stainless tube measures 455mm.

The fuze is marked "FUZE ROCKET PD-SD T2043
 
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It must have been a pretty extensive program. I have no documents, but here is my gun-fired 70mm which was recovered on Ft. Irwin (ignore paint and markings). I'd also draw comparison to the Marine Corps project on the 115mm XM54, which was reportedly intended as a CW delivery system. A large group of fired items were found on Redstone in 1990 during an excavation, they were examined and determined to be empty and so were released. Of that bunch a few were still attached with cartridge cases. As described on the other thread these were also screwed directly from the munition to the primer tube. From what remained of the discovery it was clear that they used the lightweight spiral wrapped steel cases, the lightweight steel was corroded away. One was in salvagable shape, but was attached to a crushed munition (bulldozer), so it was broken free and rescued. Each of the two rusted ones has a different base design. The third round on the left is the same munition in unfired condition. All would appear to be related in concept to your pieces, but the 115mm is the only one I've seen documentation on.

DSCN4122.jpgDSCN4123.jpgDSCN4124.jpgDSCN4125.jpgDSCN4126.jpg
 
Nice pieces US-Subs.

Could this have been a US development of the German Flak 301?

Dave.

IMG_4480.jpg
 
Its certainly a possibility, at least for the 40 and 70mm's, but we need a document to back it up. There is a fair amount available on the 115mm - test reports and a few articles as well. I've had no luck yet in the others, but don't really have a good search angle. Simply putting 40mm or 70mm gets you 25,000 results to search through. Not something I have time enough for.
 
Dave, the Flak 301 was a smooth bore experiment, the projectiles were not RA.
But bore launched projectiles with RA are known from at least the 1930's.
 
Well, Now I know what that casing is that I found. EODGuy, do you have a picture of the base of the casing? I don't have mine with me but I'll be back home in a few weeks and can compare it if you still have access to it. Cheers, Bruce.
 
I posted a request for info on a simular item back in 3rd August 2012, 10:20 AM under "projectiles" as we thought it might be a "RAP" round not a rocket. US_SUBS cameback with an acknowledgement of something simular a day o two later. With the pictures shown it seems that others have information on it. Does anyone have a digitial copy of this book on 70mm Boosted RocketsBRL Memorandun Report No. 1086 Jul 1957 "Comparison of Aerodynamic Characteristics of live and inert 70-mm T231 Gun boosted Rockets (U)? Thank you gentlemen for all your great service in attempting to ID this/these two items for us. Mick
 
So here is the photo from the document that EOD posted. The T231 is obviously longer than the ones that we have, but it does look like it is from the same family. It is most likely a later development, because the shorter ones that we have would be less stable.

REDHAT6, the photos you posted:

http://www.bocn.co.uk/vbforum/threa...ntifying-this-70mm-Rocket-Assisted-Projectile

Look just like the projectiles that Bob and I have. They are shorter than the T231.
 

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I agree the propellant section looks much longer than the one we found, as well as not having that unique base attachment (shown below). Would I be corrct then in thinking that these would be "test variance" of the T231 or do you think that they were a different program?

Below is pictures of a "tail" section from our 70mm item. Thoughts? Reason? Use?

IMAG0189A 70mm RAP Rocket motor end showing plate.jpgIMAG0178A1 Aft end of 70 mm RAP motor showing plate.jpg
 
For those wondering about the pictures, in case it is not clear from the photos, there is a plate mounted on the base which seems to block much or all of the motor thrust. I have a similar plate on the 115mm rounds, my best guess was that it was used on test pieces to assist in the recovery. You get to see that the motor ignites as it is supposed to, but the range is limited so that you can have a better chance of recovery after firing. Only a guess.

I can photograph the 115mm base if there is interest.
 
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