75mm Test Case?

[Brian Keith]

Hello, When I first saw this 75mm case, I thought it was a piece of Trench-Art, but, I suspect it may be some type of crushing stress test. Anybody have any thought about it. The only mark is an "S" on the base. It's only about 87mm high now. Thanks for looking.
BKW

 

[ogreve]

Hi,

I'd still go for the trench art option, or at least, I cannot think of any sensible reason to perform a crush test originating at the mouth (at the sides maybe, but from the mouth...).
This may seem unlikely due to the deformation, you say?
Well, observe some common finds in Japan: three old 75x294R casings transformed into official commemorative items. All of them (and I've seen quite a few of these by now) show the very same style deformation. I'm not certain how they did this, but it must have been "en masse". By far the great majority of casings used for this date from the late Meiji period, roughly around Meiji 40 - 45 (i.e. 1907 - 1912) but sometimes also from the Taisho era. In fact, it is very hard to find a Meiji era case in this calibre that has NOT been deformed like this. The latest specimen of which I have kept pictures dates from Taisho 7 (i.e. 1919). I believe these commemorative items were made somewhere in the early 1920s.

Cheers,
Olafo

 

[Brian Keith]

Those are very interesting casings. I also wonder how they got the square shape at the top! Mine could have been inserted in a larger tube and pressure applied to smash it. I'm sure it took a tremendous amount of pressure! The reason I was going with some sort of a test was that is was not a normally marked case, only the "S" on the bottom.
Thanks for showing your cases.
BKW

 

[EOD]

Brian you are correct, these are crusing tests. Done officially. Have seen these on German and French cases.

 

[ordman]

I just don't buy the crush test answer
I'm for the trench art ashtray
I've seen a few of these at gun shows and on ebay over the years
Just doesn't make sense
Documentation please
just my two cents

 

[EOD]

We hardly overlook what makes sense and what not. I did not make this up.

 

[ordman]

EOD
Not saying you made it up
But it just doesn't make any sense engineering wise
Why crush a casing from the mouth down?
this makes more sense
http://www.histomil.com/viewtopic.php?f=233&t=1565





http://www.militaryphotos.net/forum...1-Found-this-WW1-trench-art-shell-info-needed!




http://www.ebayservicesoftexas.com/trenchart.html



See lower right of picture


http://www.trenchartcollection.com/new_page_11.htm
check out compressed shells pic

# 24-2 Pair of compressed shells 18 Pdr . Shell is scored with horizontal lines, then annealed [heated] then squashed down [technique described in J.Kimball book]

http://www.trenchart.co.uk/page11.html

open forum open discussion

 

[ogreve]

Hi,

Without being 100% sure, I'm definitely with Ordman that it makes no logical sense to crush from the mouth down (as written in my original reply too), so I too would like to see some documentation if indeed these ARE official tests...
Then, Brian: unfortunately those are not mine, these are just some pictures I have kept of some of the specimens I've seen. I've always given these casings a low priority as I do not really collect trench-art like items. But... I think I'll buy one of them the next time I see one cheaply; they're neatly done, and it helps that they are official commemorative items. Several more Japanese official commemorative items (made out of ammo parts) exist, one of the best known examples being the 1" Nordenfelt projectiles that have official engravings and a stamp, commemorating the Taisho enthronement, that were subject of a different thread here some months ago.
I too wonder how they got it so nicely squared; it must have been done with great force, I'd say. Judging from the vast amount of these casings being around, and them all looking just about identical, I'd guess they had made/used some sort of special press for this.

Cheers,
Olafo

 

[Brian Keith]

Very interesting discussion gentelmen, the is no doubt that shells crushed in this manner were done as "Trench-Art", the yet to be answered question is, would a shell ever be subject to some type of stress crush test from the mouth down. I'm not an engineer and the only reason I even thought it may be some type of test is that the shell is devoid of markings except an "S". Does the "S" mean Salvage?; Sample? Is it some maker/inspector mark? Was the crush test done by a company who may have been testing for repurposing the case? Was it done as part of an accident investigating? I think there is an interesting discussion going on, I'm happy to have sparked it. I hope to learn things, that's why I come to this site.
Thanks for all the responses.
Yours,
BKW

 

[SG500]

Here's a similar variation. The one on the left is a standard 20 x 129. The one on the right is one that has been squashed so its now a 20 x 60. To me at least the case doesn't look that nice so I'm assuming its not trench art (I could be wrong though) possibly supporting EOD's comments above. The full length case is interesting in that its been fired from a fluted chamber and has a long case crack up one side, looks like something went really wrong that day for someone.
Dave.

 

[ordman]

Now this looks like a purpose made engineering piece
Maybe for high pressure chamber testing or sub caliber
The top ring looks like it is made of a thicker material
It may be a seperate piece all together welded to it
Interesting like to see comments on this one

 

[SG500]

The top piece is definitely part of the squashed bit, its not been put on separately, it is however slightly larger diameter than the rest of the squashed part. I'll take a couple of better photos later.
Thanks.
Dave.

 

[Brian Keith]

SG500,
Your case is interesting also, very uniform in the crush, mine is quite different. I really wonder how mine was done, if it was somehow fluted then squashed? Thanks for showing it. By the way, mine did have some burnt matches and ciggarette butts in it, so it had been used as an ash tray.
BKW

 

[ordman]

Your casing is done this way
Shell is scored with horizontal lines, then annealed [heated] then squashed down [technique described in J.Kimball book]

 

[Brian Keith]

Thanks Ordman,
I have her book, except it's been in my boss's office for the past few months, I need to get it back!
BKW

 

[SG500]

Now this looks like a purpose made engineering piece
Maybe for high pressure chamber testing or sub caliber
The top ring looks like it is made of a thicker material
It may be a seperate piece all together welded to it
Interesting like to see comments on this one

Some closer pictures of the top of the case.
Its all one case that's squashed.
Dave.