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A few questions about this no5 .?

K

king ratgre

Active Member
Hi all, a couple of questions for all of you ordnance oracles out there,.. please see photos attached, firstly I assume that the lettering E F are elmbank foundry, or are they just randomly assigned cast/mold identification?

Secondly, the green & white paint seems quite old, View attachment 15678820191203_182201.jpg20191203_182117.jpg
but doesn't match any quoted ID markings for this period... unless you know differently
Thirdly, the base plug "ain't right" unless again you know differently,
& Finally, the centre piece is steel with brass det tube!.. is this early no5 or other?.
Appreciate your thoughts on this on( ps: I already know,lever striker & ring are all modern repro)
 
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The base plug is just a stand made for display by the look of it.

Neither of the paint bands looks original and there were never any white bands, just all over white grenades.

You would have to show a picture of the centre piece but mixes of zinc / lead antimony / copper / brass etc do exist.
 
I posted picture of centre tube via attachment{which now will no longer open]. i will try to re post,,,but it definatly is magnetic..thanks for reply,which was pretty much what was thinking about base & paint job ,but weird centrepeice got me questioning everything abot this grenade
 
The centre piece is made by Oritur Manufacturing Co. Ltd. and bears the patent application number 9614 of 1916, which was duly granted as Patent No. 106555. Usually a composite brass item, an image of the cup of another such centre piece is attached herewith. Is your example tinned brass rather than steel? It is easy for a magnet to be deflected by the surrounding mass of cast iron.

There was once another one posted here http://www.bocn.co.uk/vbforum/threads/87220-No23-Mills?highlight=oritur



(Image courtesy of unrecorded web site.)
 

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thanks for the info...very much appreciated. I have tried to remove centre tube to have a better look at its composition,however it seems pretty stuck & as the brass det tube appears to have been damaged during previous removal attempt, I have not been to assertive with it.however whilst I do get what your saying about "magnetic deflection" the main centre tube does appear to be steel{ish}, & would not readilly scratch with sharp knife tip & sticks quite strongly to magnet...any further thoughts gratefully received
 
Having confirmed the cup is not tinned brass but almost certainly steel, it matches that shown in the attached detail from an inspection drawing - which happens to be the form shown on the Oritur patent. The full inspection drawing shows a steel central tube (brazed or sweated into the cup) whereas the central tube - or striker sleeve - of your example appears to be brass.

Ignoring the difference of brass tube vs steel, and differences of date between drawing issue and the 9614-16 impressed into the cup face, the centre piece is a nice find. Almost impossible to remove from the grenade body intact, it is best to leave it in situ.



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Millsman said:
Were they actually made Tom? I've never encountered one.
Click to expand...

1,932* steel centre pieces were made for trials, the item approved, and committed to drawing - where it remained until cancelled at the end of the war. Whether production items were made by Oritur or others I do not know.

*figure is from memory - I could be making it up, but it rings a bell.




Tom.
 
king ratgre said:
thanks again for great info...{just to clarify ,cup is steel,striker tube is steel.but detonator tube is brass]
Click to expand...

Thank you. That is good to have the construction confirmed, in which case I think with the patent application mark (rather than the granted patent number*), the centre piece is likely to be one of the trials batch.

*The patent was granted end of May 1917 but steel tube samples started to appear end of April.
 
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