Another Finnish 122

[jvollenberg]

I need assistance in IDing another Finnish 122 Projo. I know this one was also used by the Germans, as you will see in the images. What I can get from the owner is it is stamped "k a n 244". It was repainted. It has a burster tube. It is 635-MM long. I am guessing as smoke round.

Anything I can dig up would be great ...

Joe

 

[jiipee76]

Gray paint in finnish use was for coastal artillery(RTA=RANNIKKO TYKISTÖ AMMUS ink markings useally also added) from postwar period.

Gray paint itself does not mean anything special.Lots of various wartime ammunition (8,8cm Flak and bigger rounds) can be found in same gray paint color which was added to these rounds after war in depot rework to make them survive better in warehouses.

Pictured round is German made with bsw and WaA stamps and also "k a n 244" is german marking.Finnish stamp would have 2 / 44 on it.

 

[Nabob]

Hi,
the german 122mm projectile (12 cm Sprgr.) has the fuze thread 50 x 3 to fit standard german fuzes (AZ23, AZ1,....)
There is an adaptor with smaller thread for soviet? fuze.
Can You give us the dimentions of the thread, please?
As soviet fuzes are bursting type fuzes, I think the burster tube is a replacement of the original german "zündladung" and maybe also the smoke emitor "rauchentwickler".
Bob

 

[jvollenberg]

OK ...
So when I went back to ask about the fuze diameter I was told they gave me the wrong Diameter. This is a German/Finnish 152-MM not 122-MM.
So that might change things just a bit ...
As for the fuze information:
Inside dia = 33mm
Outside dia = 41mm
Also, an RGM-2 fuze fits perfectly.

Joe

 

[Nabob]

Hi, that does not change much.
Just erase 122 and put 152 in my previous answer. There was a 15,2cm Sprgr.
It did not use smoke emitor as far as I know, only the Zdlg. 36.
I think our Finnish friends could have some hard data on this one.
Bob

PS I have a better pic, but not with me right now.
DJ did a cutaway if I am not mistaken.

 

[Tmine35]

In Finnish WW2 ammo catalogue is mentioned German made 150mm smoke projectile with liquid filling ( filling plug on side ). 152mm as well as 155mm shells were also of German origin, but in these calibers the catalogue does not mention anything about smoke projectiles. All projectiles of German origin in the catalogue are fitted for normal German fuzes.

 

[Nabob]

I am sorry if I did not made myself clear.
The shell is HE.
German fuzes are used with booster that contains a detonator.
The outcoming impulse of a german (AZ23, AZ1 or ZtZ S/30...) fuze is flame. The flame initiates the detonator in the booster (Zündladung), The detonator detonates the booster explosive (PETN, RDX, Picric acid or nipolite) which detonates the main charge of the shell.
The fuze and booster were transported separately. Some german HE shells have a smoke emitor "rauchzillinder" under the booster or inside the main charge to make the explosion more visible for the spotter to adjust fire. It is NOT a smoke projectile.

If Finnland had shells without fuzes and boosters, the logical step would be to make an adapter for soviet fuze (RGM-2) and to fill the booster cavity wuth the explosive. You do not need the german booster anyway because the soviet fuzes are detonating fuzes. It depends how long this adapter sits inside the shell.

Bob

 

[Tmine35]

Basically from Germany supplied ammunition were as original. Fuzes attached the normal way from factory. At least I know from 105mm shells the "Rauchentwickler" was cast in explosive charge down below the shell on bottom.

The mentioned catalogue dated 1944 does not mention anything Soviet fuzes would have been used in these shells.

 

[Nabob]

1. could this be a post war application? This would not be listed in 1944 manual.
@ Joe: Do you know when this item was added to the collection and what was in the batch with it?
2. there are shells with "rauchentwickler" on the bottom as well as under the booster please see the attached picture (Thank You Mr. Bélot).
I do not think the 15,2cm Sprgr used a Rauchentwickler (did not find it in german documentation).

Bob

 

[Tmine35]

The painting is post war, sometimes 1960's-80's. The shell has been stored unfilled as there are no filling details stencilled. Finland made during war and especially post war own version of AZ23 fuze with identical dimensions. Why an adapter for Soviet fuze was made, I don't know.