Clock for Torpedominen

[Antoon]

Hello,

Who has information about this clockwork as used bij German Frogman in there "Torpedominen" during the attack on the Waal-river bridges in the Netherlands, after Operation Market Garden?

 

[Zunder]

It does look a lot like a regular UES (Uhrwerkseinschalter), are there any markings on the baseplate ?

Best regards,

Zünder

 

[Antoon]

It does look a lot like a regular UES (Uhrwerkseinschalter), are there any markings on the baseplate ?

Best regards,

Zünder

Oeps, Not available. Will ask the museum if they have a picture of the bottom.

Is there documentation available?

Greetings

 

[Zunder]

Oeps, Not available. Will ask the museum if they have a picture of the bottom.

Is there documentation available?

Greetings

Yes,

see: https://www.scribd.com/document/734410407/Op-1673a-German-Underwater-Ordnance
Starts at page 235

There's also a Kriegsmarine manual: M.Dv. Nr. 658, but i am still looking for that one.
A good book to have is Wolfgang Thamm's "Einsatzfähige deutsche Fernzündgeräte", which describes german WW2 fuzesystems for naval and aircraft mines as well as clocks like the UES.
It was/is published by comprints.de, ISBN 3-86611-108-8.

Groeten,

Zünder

 

[Lefa.]

Hello,

Who has information about this clockwork as used bij German Frogman in there "Torpedominen" during the attack on the Waal-river bridges in the Netherlands, after Operation Market Garden?

Thanks for sharing, the To-Minen is a tough subject.
According to what I've learnt, a few models were designed in the period ranging from June to October 44; the late Nipolit model used to be fitted with Italian 10hrs clockworks (the same fitted on the minor charges) but I've found also early references about 6hrs devices, which might well be yours. May I kindly ask who links this devices to the To-Minen?

 

[Antoon]

Thanks for sharing, the To-Minen is a tough subject.
According to what I've learnt, a few models were designed in the period ranging from June to October 44; the late Nipolit model used to be fitted with Italian 10hrs clockworks (the same fitted on the minor charges) but I've found also early references about 6hrs devices, which might well be yours. May I kindly ask who links this devices to the To-Minen?

Someone who is writing a book about the attacks by Sondereinsatzgruppen on the Waal-river bridges in September 1944.

As far as I know the clock is in the Liberation museum in Groesbeek (NL) and is donated by someone who defused one of these Torpedominen. Will ask for the exact story.

 

[Alpini]

the UES II as mounted in the TMB II and TMC I:


But they were used also in other mines like the SMA:

 

[Lefa.]

Are these sterilization devices right? I assume with days long delays, while Antoon's one has a hourly graduation in quarters with a safety of 30 minutes.
This is the first time I've found an evidence of the 6hrs clockwork, encased into the original device. I'm wondering if this was fitted before the introduction of the Italian clockwork or if both were fitted together, one being the sterilizer. Looking forward for Antoon's story.

 

[Alpini]

Schärfereinrichtung means, that it was used to arm the mine after a set delay time.

 

[Antoon]

It does look a lot like a regular UES (Uhrwerkseinschalter), are there any markings on the baseplate ?

Best regards,

Zünder

Hereby a picture of the bottom of the Clockwork.

 

[Alan1]

Here is another clock, this time from a drifting mine (sic), and recovered from the Seine, Orival Bridge, but similar time, 17/9/44.
Alan1

 

[Antoon]

New information. Family from a former member of a British disposal team that had redered safe a German Torpedo Mine at there Waal bridge at Nijmegen in 1944 told my contact the following:
I believed the charge to be a magnetic mine Type C which has been modified with a flotation chamber at each end.
So a GC Mine (Luftmine B) with two floating chambers. has someone a picture?

 

[jacleon1785]

Hi Antoon,
I think this where you are looking for ( TMBc. )

 

[Lefa.]

New information. Family from a former member of a British disposal team that had redered safe a German Torpedo Mine at there Waal bridge at Nijmegen in 1944 told my contact the following:
I believed the charge to be a magnetic mine Type C which has been modified with a flotation chamber at each end.
So a GC Mine (Luftmine B) with two floating chambers. has someone a picture?

Antoon, I'm not aware of any picture of the to-minen, neither from books, manuals or archives. I've actually looked for one for many years.

As already mentioned, the system underwent a development period and different models were devised and used during the operations.

The early idea was to adapt a TMB mine case (model 2 or 3) with two floating ends, the first models were designed for sea water and used to sink due to lack of buoyancy in riverine operations, dimensions and shape changed, from a cylindrical system the last developement devised a shape like the hull of a ship, described in the documents as pointed, flat on top and rounded at the sides. The explosive was Nipolit, 600kg in the system used during the Waal operation, documents states that clockwork was the Italian 10 hours which the Operators used to be familiar with during the training in Italy, also adopted on the minor charge (the Sprengfische). It is yet unclear which 10 hours clockwork was actually fitted on the to-minen as the said device comed with three different cases. It is also unclear if a second device was fitted. I've found a reference also to a 6hrs clockwork but it is unclear which model used to be fitted with it.

In my opinion more context is needed, during the Waal operation one to-minen stuck on a sand bank and was indeed rendered safe, unfortunately I don't have the report of that activity, it must be buried in some generic file at TNA. The Royal Navy Minewarfare & Clearance Diving Officers' Association has published a list, not comprensive but a good starting point, of the awards for ordnances disposal, is it possible to know the name of the man you're on about?

Attached a sketch of commander Hummel of the to-minen configuration during the Waal operation, the mine that was rendered safe was one of the two destined to the road bridge.

 

[Antoon]

Antoon, I'm not aware of any picture of the to-minen, neither from books, manuals or archives. I've actually looked for one for many years.

As already mentioned, the system underwent a development period and different models were devised and used during the operations.

The early idea was to adapt a TMB mine case (model 2 or 3) with two floating ends, the first models were designed for sea water and used to sink due to lack of buoyancy in riverine operations, dimensions and shape changed, from a cylindrical system the last developement devised a shape like the hull of a ship, described in the documents as pointed, flat on top and rounded at the sides. The explosive was Nipolit, 600kg in the system used during the Waal operation, documents states that clockwork was the Italian 10 hours which the Operators used to be familiar with during the training in Italy, also adopted on the minor charge (the Sprengfische). It is yet unclear which 10 hours clockwork was actually fitted on the to-minen as the said device comed with three different cases. It is also unclear if a second device was fitted. I've found a reference also to a 6hrs clockwork but it is unclear which model used to be fitted with it.

In my opinion more context is needed, during the Waal operation one to-minen stuck on a sand bank and was indeed rendered safe, unfortunately I don't have the report of that activity, it must be buried in some generic file at TNA. The Royal Navy Minewarfare & Clearance Diving Officers' Association has published a list, not comprensive but a good starting point, of the awards for ordnances disposal, is it possible to know the name of the man you're on about?

Attached a sketch of commander Hummel of the to-minen configuration during the Waal operation, the mine that was rendered safe was one of the two destined to the road bridge.

Thank you very much for the info. I Will ask for the name. Greetings Antoon

 

[Antoon]

Thank you very much for the info. I Will ask for the name. Greetings Antoon

The officer who had rendered safe the Torpedomine was temporary lieutenant RNR John Bridge, a Bomb and Mine Disposal officer, assisted by 260 Field Coy R.E. to tow away the charge from the bridge.