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Couple of Vietnam ordnance questions

dano1917

dano1917

RIP
Picture one shows a bomblet I just bought. It was ID'd as a Vietnam era BLU 68 bomblet submunition. Was this in a bomb with many others that was air-plane dropped? Picture 2 shows 2 m212 40mm grenades in my collection. I found a web-site that ID'd these as Vietnam era. Is this correct?? Dano
 

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Dano

You'll be getting specifics soon from others. The blue ball was contained in a "cannister" munition. A bunch of them packed in a bomb that opened up, dispensing these over a fairly wide area.
The 40MMs are, or seem to be, common practice rounds. A puff of colored talcum powder proves your aiming skills, if any.

Rick
 
Dano, The 40mm's are Viet Nam era, but the lot #'s on your casings place the year for the first one at 2003 and the second at 1987. R/S Bruce.
 
Dano,
they have your submunition misidentified, which is normal. It is a practice version of a BLU-26 type submunition, a high explosive submunition. As a live item it could be one of several designations, depending upon the fuze and filler. The BLU-68 on the other hand was an incendiary submunition, similar in basic appearance but different in many ways. As an inert drop piece it would have had a BDU (bomb dummy unit) designation instead of the BLU (bomb live unit), and most likely a different number, but I don't have the documents open in front of me right now.

The BLU-26 was dropped over SE Asia in the millions, typically from the simple SUU-30 dispenser, a simple clamshell design. Someplace I have pictures of homes in Cambodia where they use the common empty dispenser halves as construction materials.
 
Thanks for the quick answers gentlemen. I suspected the 40mm's were not Vietnam, but did see them ID'd on a site as such so I was just wondering. At least I found out the other is a sub but as you can teel I am not at all that versed on such ordnance items. thanks again...Dano
 
Dano

Some pics of the cluster munition. And some others you'll need to be on the lookout for.
 

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Second picture has BLU-63 submunitions, similar size to Dano's piece but a different animal as well. The dispenser is unusual though, both the color and some of the features are different than normal, where is the picture from?
 
Re: 2nd pic.

I pulled these off the web (Images cluster munitions). One site references Iranian origin.
 
Thanks so much for the pictures Rick, as it much better gives me an idea of their use. Neat looking little critters. Mine is 2 3/4 inches in diameter and was spoken to be from a cluster bomb (please excuse my ignorance) things that I am just learning about as the newer stuff is way out of my field of study i've been accustomed to....Dano
 
Dan,
Are you going to study Vietnam now? I can help remember? What are you going after next?

V40
Mark
 
Hi Mark, I just picked up a book about the Tet Offensive in a secondhand store. I will start there, not that I am going to delve in with both barrels but I like to read and thought that might be a good start (for 50 cents anyway). Any recommended readings you might lead me to? Dano
 
Ha Dano and Guys.Back before I had to sell off a lot of my collection when I got my transplant.I had a sub munition that looks like Dano,s trainer but was only about a 1" or 1 1/2" diameter.It was a live HE at one time.My son has it now.
Anybody no the correct name for it.
Thank you in advance.
vinny :tinysmile_grin_t::tinysmile_grin_t:
 
This size?? I dont know the designaion either. I really should write this stuff down. My memory is getting worse and worse,,,,, Where was I now???
 

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Dano, that is a start, but it is kinda in the middle of the War. The begining of the actual shooting on a two way firing range didn't really start off until The Battle of the Ia Drang Valley inside the larger Valley called the A-Shau Valley. The worst of that Battle took place after a few companies were told to walk out of the valley to an LZ further away. They fell into a huge ambush an were virtually wiped out. Yes, this is the beginig of the actual War fought in mass.

My friend you can start out with the following books if you want to:
1) "Vietnam Order Of Battle" by Captain Shelby L. Stanton. ISBN: 0811700712

In fact he has written a few very good books on Vietnam. I believe
he was actually in Vietnam too!

Also, I need to know which way you will be heading? Or are you wanting general info overall? Or are you looking for something specific, ie., Brown River Navy, The airplanes that flew during Vietnam, Operation MACVSOG, or anything else that is about the Vietnam War.

4) U.S. Army Uniforms of the Vietnam War (this would be a way of collecting all that is Vietnam.) No Ordnance here though.

It is of mine opinion that you do not read too much about the enemies we were to fight against, this is where it can get complex.

Let me know of your thoughts on where you want to go with this. I know you love the history behind a particular grenade and how it was used and what was on the inside of it?

Those books would be ideal to start off of though. Also, if you want to know about the ordnance used you'd either have to ask me or some of the others. Best bet though for ordnance used during Vietnam will be the TM's and FM's of that War/Era. Even some good old dusty 70's "jane's Infantry Weapons" will give you enough for a while to ID your Grenades (INERT).

V40
Mark
 
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Lou,
your small one is one of the M38/M40 golfball series, the model again depending on which internal fuze is in it. This has been discussed at length in previous threads, just do a search for M38. You can see the type of internal fuze with your BLU-26 type beside it. Your M38 could come from air or ground systems, an aircraft dispenser or an artillery rocket.
 
US-Subs said:
Lou,
your small one is one of the M38/M40 golfball series, the model again depending on which internal fuze is in it. This has been discussed at length in previous threads, just do a search for M38. You can see the type of internal fuze with your BLU-26 type beside it. Your M38 could come from air or ground systems, an aircraft dispenser or an artillery rocket.
Click to expand...

Thank you,I'll write it down.And search it out.
 
Dano, The submunition is either the BLU-26 (T-1)/B Training item or the BLU-26(D-1) Dummy item, both simulating the HE loaded BLU-26/B submunition. They were loaded in the SUU-30 family of clam-shell dispensers. When loaded both components then made up the CBU 24 series of ready to deploy ordnance. The terms that are generally applied to the abbreviations BLU (Bomb Live Unit), SUU (Suspension Underwing Unit) and CBU (Cluster Bomb Unit) were never officially adopted by the Air Force to the best of my knowledge, but have become standard in nomenclatures anyhow. It drives me a little nuts at times trying to ID the BLU-26 because it is similar in appearance to the BLU-36/B and the BLU-59/B. I'll bow to US-Subs who knows a lot more than I do on them.

The two 40mm M781 rounds are not from the Vietnam period, they were developed and produced after the end of the Vietnam War. I don't recall of any plastic cased 40mm rounds being used in Vietnam. The Draft Equipment publication I have on the round still carries the XM781 designation. That document is dated June 1976. The significance there is that the document is required to be in the field before developer and operational tests are conducted on any ordnance item. That means that in June of 1976 they were still in the testing and proof stages of the design and type classification and fielding had not happened yet. I cannot remember for sure, but I seem to recall working on the EOD procedures for the round in the early 1980's, which would come close to tracking with the publication date.

One thing Dano, be very careful not to crack the plastic projectile. It only has a small amount of orange dye in it, but I can guarantee that a little of that goes a very long way and clean up is a real mess. I have attached a drawing of the round. Notice it uses cut-off cal. .38 blank cartridge (not .38 cal...sometimes the government can't get it right either) as a primer/propellant charge.
 

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Just a rookie question? Once something is painted in practice/dummy blue,doesnt the designation go from blu to bdu??

And I made the mistake of popping the cap of a practice 40mm one time. Took an hour to get it out of the carpet. And off the chair,and off my shoes,and pants leg,and off the leg of the table I was working at, and finally,off the cats tail. He's not lieing Dan,be careful.
 
My bad! Yes, the designation for the Dummy item should have been BDU (Bomb Dummy Unit). I was typing faster than my brain was engaging. Sorry for the confusion.
 
Noooo problem. Im still learning about alot of the newer"postWW2" stuff so,just wanted make sure I got my bdu's/blu's straight.
 
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