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Don't Panic !!

Millsman

Millsman

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
A pensioner took a Mills 36 training grenade (5 holes in the body) into his local Police Station, result:-
From the Daily Telegraph: -


A police station operating an arms amnesty went into a full-scale lockdown after a pensioner arrived by bus carrying a second world war grenade.


Doreen Chambers, 76, and husband John, 63, turned up at Chingford Police Station, in north-east London, with the device in a carrier bag.



The grenade was drilled to remove the explosives, but still had the pin used to detonate it.

Mr Chambers said he was surprised the delivery triggered a full-scale operation, including the arrival of the bomb squad.
He said: "I thought there was a dangerous criminal trying to escape, but I soon realised they were panicking over the grenade," he said.
A cordon blocking off several streets was removed after the Mills bomb was declared safe at approximately 12.10pm.

Chief Inspector Jon Simpson said: "We felt it was appropriate to call in the experts and get them to deal with it - in the meantime we took steps to protect our officers, staff and members of the public."


The police station was evacuated for an hour on Monday morning and explosives officers from the Met's SO15 team were called in.

The couple had caught the 97 bus to the station at around 10.30am after hearing about the Metropolitan Police's two-week weapons amnesty.

Mr Chambers' father, Sergeant William Cambers, brought the grenade home in 1946 to in Walthamstow, east London, where it sat in the wardrobe for 20 years, before being taken to the pensioner's Chingford home in the late 1960s.




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Reminds me of a story told to me a few years ago. The story teller was friend who is ex SBS and had helped out on the aid convoys to Bosnia. On one trip to a dangerous area the local army commander gave him a Browning 9mm and 100 rounds for the trip "Just in Case". On return he gave back the Browning but forgot the rounds were still in the lorry. On returning to Folkestone he took the 100 rounds of 9mm to the Police Station - Result Panic! Station closed to public for 2 hours, over a box of ammo.

Our Police certainly need education regarding firearms and ordnance.

John
 
It does make you wonder what they will do in the event of a terrorist attack.
 
The man's father hand been at a training establishment in WW2 - quite a clue that it would be inert. I wonder at the logic, especially with the Folkestone incident. Since when has a box of live rounds been so dangerous, that you have to close a major Police Station?

John
 
What a bloody joke. Surely someone in that Police station would have a vague bit of knowledge. This is exactly what happens when we are brain washed into believing that these things are evil and bad! No one seems to hold an interest in them, too busy glued to Facebook and Twitter and the likes.
 
There is of course a perfectly logical explanation. Perhaps the chief decided that to keep the station staff alert, a training exercise is due. So let's pretend the grenade is live. ...
 
F0031 said:
There is of course a perfectly logical explanation. Perhaps the chief decided that to keep the station staff alert, a training exercise is due. So let's pretend the grenade is live. ...
Click to expand...

I don't think they are that clever!
 
If you think that is bad, watch what happens is someone drops a mercury thermometer in the hallway of a school, or even outside on the sidewalk here in the U.S., so that the mercury is exposed. School is completely evacuated. A full blown HAZMAT team is called in, wearing their most protective suits, to clean up the "horribly dangerous" material. You would think it was Nerve Gas or weaponized Anthrax spores by the way they behave.
 
When I was at school we used to pick up spilled mercury with a piece of card and a lolly stick! I'm still here....
 
HAZORD said:
If you think that is bad, watch what happens is someone drops a mercury thermometer in the hallway of a school, or even outside on the sidewalk here in the U.S., so that the mercury is exposed. School is completely evacuated. A full blown HAZMAT team is called in, wearing their most protective suits, to clean up the "horribly dangerous" material. You would think it was Nerve Gas or weaponized Anthrax spores by the way they behave.
Click to expand...

If I ever go to the USA I'd better keep quiet about the fillings in my teeth.
 
Hell, when we were kids, we held pennies in our hand along with a loose puddle of mercury, and we would rub the mercury all over the penny to make them silver colored, and I'm still here.
 
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Millsman said:

The grenade was drilled to remove the explosives, but still had the pin used to detonate it.
Click to expand...

So the US isn't the only country that has officials that appear to believe the the pin is the most dangerous part of the grenade. I just mentioned another incident where this was stated when I was teaching my grenade class yesterday. Ponderous.
 
What disappoints me with our Police is that there seems to be a staggering lack of knowledge regarding anything to do with firearms and ordnance. I would not expect them to have specialist level knowledge but even a few live pistol rounds seems to unhinge them. Most militaria enthusiasts have more knowledge and common sense.

It always angers me when the Police raid some collector, make statements about x number of firearms and bombs being seized and then x months later no charges are pressed and hopefully the already deactivated firearms and inert ordnance is returned.

When I had my militaria shop I had to explain about deactivation certificates to all the local PCs who came in. Nobody had ever told them about the Police approved system.
 
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I do a large amount of training with local police and bomb squads, answering requests for information plus providing training on basic identification of some of the more common items found in our State. The truth of the matter is, for the bomb squads, when they go through their formal certification training they receive about 1 hour of training. Period. The emphasis they receive is: "this is beyond you, if it is ordnance, call the military". No in-depth understanding of ordnance, no real recognition skills, no further training or support. And this is the squads. You are discussing the officers on the street. A deeper problem is the for the past 15 years or so the military abandoned the mission. Not their fault really, they had other priorities. But in serving those priorities they lost some of the critical skill sets, and with the passage of time they lost many of their key trainers for those as well. Now they are just beginning to return, but with varying skill levels and results.

When I provide training to the squads I have to be very careful to limit what I say, and not provide too much information, covering every line with "there is an exception to every rule" and "practice does not mean inert". Just recently I had an officer (not a squad member) stop by with a handful of 40mm grenades - I asked him if he was aware that these particular items had an explosive spotting charge, he stated, "No, these are practice". In the 4.5 years since I have returned home to live and work I have answered over 100 RFIs for ordnance in my home State. many which have appeared on these pages. About 20% were live. These items range from US Civil War to current; practice, HE, illumination, chemical, propaganda, R&D; US, German, Italian, Japanese, UK, Bulgarian, Belgian, French, and Yugoslav. During the same period I have found over 100 live items in shows, displays, museums and private collections that I have assisted in turning over to Squads for destruction.

Regarding this thread, where is this criticism of local law enforcement coming from? I routinely teach personnel that, if you do not fully recognize the item, lock it down and find someone that does. Interacting with ordnance that you do not recognize is a failing career move. Not recognizing ordnance is not a failure, unless you pretend that you do when you don't. We discuss the same thing on this forum every single day. Law enforcement personnel are forced to make decisions and take action immediately, over an incredibly broad spectrum of issues, without the benefit of advice or all too often, specific training. Mistakes are inevitable and part of the job. So when the untrained officer recognizes his own lack of knowledge and places safety above simplicity I support him. Virtually every live piece I've recovered was described similarly to the one in the incident above which started this thread. "Been in the family for years, uncle Bob had it checked out, grandpa was in the military and knew about these things, it's empty". All crap. I especially love the "it's empty" one. Found 3 live illum grenades in the past 2 years that were "empty", one with holes drilled in it as well. And the number of empty projos with fuzes that still have live dets and boosters? Keep in mind that just because you recognize something it does not mean that I do. Give the folks on the street the benefit of the doubt, they do not have the background, knowledge or support that people on this forum do.
 
Many points there I wouldn't argue with. However. at least in the US firearms knowledge is far better.
 
I grew up watching the old black and white westerns on TV. The guns were never a problem. It was the damn rattlesnakes and quicksand that you had to worry about.

Now you don't have to worry about quicksand and the antigunners are the rattlesnakes.


Sent from my NSA/FBI tapped iPhone using Tapatalk
 
Now John, At least rattlesnakes have SOME morals :xd:. Cheers, Bruce.
 
When I was instructed in pistol shooting the instructor said " Hold the pistol like you would hold a rattlesnake and never point it near anyone".

But that's another story!

John
 
HAZORD said:
I grew up watching the old black and white westerns on TV. The guns were never a problem. It was the damn rattlesnakes and quicksand that you had to worry about.

Now you don't have to worry about quicksand and the antigunners are the rattlesnakes.


Sent from my NSA/FBI tapped iPhone using Tapatalk
Click to expand...

What about the wells and old mine shafts, kids were always falling in them, there was a better gene pool then, i can remember watching a Disney film when i was young about a boy younger than me at the time who was allowed a .22 rifle on his own, i wanted to live in the USA
 
45 min of Ord Recognition at HDS that starts with "If it's military ordnance, Call EOD" and ends with "If it's military ordnance, Call EOD". Unfortunately, most don't. EOD takes too long, every time we call them they are deployed, if we call them they will just blow it up so why don't we. I routinely call civilian squads to task for doing stuff like that, the same as I call military EOD to task for telling the guys "It's live" for everything they pick up.

And I've saved some good quotes for training over the years. My favorite is "Grenades are painted with a special lead paint that makes them impossible to x-ray".
 
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