ECRA Germany

[TonyE]

Just returned from the ECRA annual cartridge show and meeting in Germany. It was an excellent weekend, very well attended with collectors from all over Europe and some travelling from as far as the US, Canada, South Africa and Turkey. It is always good to meet old friends from all over the world, and there is something there for every taste from shotshells to large bore artillery.

Although items from my particuar interest, British and Commonwealth military SAA, were a little thin on the ground, I still managed to find a few nice items shown below.

In order;

An unopened packet of 20 rounds of 6.5mm Krag Jorgensen made by Kynoch for the SOE to drop to the Norwegian Resistance. These were simply headstamped "6.5" at 12 o'clock and "KJ" at 6 o'clock in an attempt to preserve the anonimity of the source. Presumably, printing the label in German was done in the hope that any found by the Germans would be assumed to be issue ammunition. Unfortunately, the style of the headstamp and the font of the label would allow any half decent intelligence analyst to immediately identify them as made by Kynoch!

The same cases was used post war by the Small Arm Calibre Panel for ballistic testing of various .256 inch bullets, and I have several examples of these.

Next is a rather nice .45 Martini-Henry made by the Colonial Ammunition Company in New Zealand. This has a grey/green paper patch, and although the label does not state so, I think there is a good chance this is cordite loaded given the late date (1895) and the fact that the British carbine cordite load had a green patch. The label is also shown.

The second label is for the .45 Gardner Gatling Cordite Mark I that has the orange paper patch. Note the "N" on the top left of the label indicating Royal Navy issue. The Navy's Maxims were in Garner gatling calibre whilst the army used the .45 M-H.

Finally there is a .303 inch Mark VI made in 1957 by Kynoch for the Rhodesian Territorial Forces, headstamped "K.57 T F 6". I was pleased to find this as it is quite a rare headstamp and have been looking for one for a number of years.

It is well worth joining the ECRA for the monthly Journal as well as the meetings. Next year's annual meeting is back in Switzerland.

Regards
TonyE

 

[smle2009]

Very nice TonyE and thank you for showing them to us

All the best
Tony

 

[ben2000]

Thanks for sharing these with us Tony. I love the M.H packet and the label for the Gardner Gatling rounds is superb, I would love to start a collection of Victorian British Military SAA. I need to find out if I can attend the Bisley show in October!

 

[TonyE]

If you liked those, how about these two labels for the Gardner and the Gatling? Notice the error on the Gatling label. It says ".045" instead of "0.45"

As you like Victorian era ammo I have attached a few Snider and Martini pictures. The only Sniders I am missing are the Pattern II and III but the rest are all there up to the Mark X. The Martinis are just a sample of different types and the long round is the .45 M-H Long Chamber that was the trial round found to be too fragile and which led to the M-H round as we know it.

Have you joined the ECRA, because if so then of course you can come to the meeting at Bisley.

Regards
TonyE

 

[jonnyc]

Tony, I wonder if you can provide a comparison between a larger ECRA show and the US SLICS show? Not which is better, more of "what-to-expect" kind of thing. For example, I am sure that an ECRA show has a much more "international" feel, and the vast majority of cartridges at SLICS will have an American origin. As a collector of non-US military ammunition, I do hope to someday attend one (or many!) of the ECRA events.

 

[TonyE]

Hi Jonny

SLICS is by far the larger show, but the ECRA annual meetings are also very good. I suppose they average about 100 tables and as you might expect, they are predominately European ammo. There is an emphasis on 7.92 and Swiss ammo, but there is also a wide range of other types. Just as at SLICS there is an interest in Civil War rounds, at the ECRA shows there is quite a lot of very early European ammo that would not be seen at SLICS.

To be honest, I go as much for the socialising as the ammo. It means I get to see a lot of European friends as well as the usual suspects from the New World, Lew, Bill et al.

Also, there are often really good side shows, especially when the meeting is in Switzerland. We have been to a firepower demo by the Swiss army and last year visited one of the Swiss forts built into a mountain. Well worth the visit.

You have got to come over one day!

Cheers
Tony

 

[jonnyc]

Unfortunately, at this time of year I would have to bring my students. That would be one hell of a field trip!

 

[Tony Williams]

Tony, I wonder if you can provide a comparison between a larger ECRA show and the US SLICS show? Not which is better, more of "what-to-expect" kind of thing. For example, I am sure that an ECRA show has a much more "international" feel, and the vast majority of cartridges at SLICS will have an American origin. As a collector of non-US military ammunition, I do hope to someday attend one (or many!) of the ECRA events.

I've never been to SLICS, but I understand that an important element is the various themed ammo displays which are put together, with the best being awarded prizes. This is completely absent from the ECRA meetings, which are simply for buying and selling.

I had a particularly good meeting this time, picking up quite a lot of the small-calibre ammo I was looking for. Not so good for the bigger stuff, although I did get an immaculate Soviet 57mm inert anti-tank round, as well as replacing my IMI 60mm dummy APFSDS and adding a dummy HE version, both factory-fresh.

It is difficult to find inert mint-condition modern versions of automatic cannon rounds. I have been looking for examples of the 20x102 PGU-28, properly painted 25x137, 27x145 and 30x173 HE, and the current 30x173 APFSDS. There were a couple of the latter available - but 300 EUR was too much for me, especially as their value can only go down as more leak out.

 

[highlandotter]

I have wondered about the St. Louis show is there much in the way of inert 20 to 42mm stuff there? I would have to fly in and that would cost the price of a couple of good rounds if they were available, If not, the misery of traveling by plane in todays climate would not be worth it.

 

[jonnyc]

Yes, there is generally alot of the bigger stuff at SLICS.

 

[Dutch]

There were some tables with bigger stuf :smile:

 

[Dutch]

Yes, there is generally alot of the bigger stuff at SLICS.

There was also "big stuf" in Hessisch.

Rgds