I managed to get my hands on two armor piercing projectiles for the French 47mm Mle 1937 antitank gun. Both are missing the ballistic caps. This was obviously an issue with this ammunition in service as you can see in the attached photo of a captured gun; several of the rounds clearly do not have their caps. I also have an image from a Russian manual showing this ammunition with and without the cap. I cannot tell from my examples (too much corrosion damage) how the cap was attached. Was it simply a poor design for a press fit; there is a little area for the cap to attach? Was it threaded on? The cap in the photos is a reproduction. It is my understanding the caps were made of magnesium. I also compared the antitank gun projectiles to the tank gun (Mle 1935) armor piercing projectiles in one photo. The antitank gun projectiles have wider driving bands that are spaced farther apart.
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French 47mm Antitank Gun Armor Piercing Projectiles with Missing Ballistic Caps
- Thread starter M8owner
- Start date
Sorry, mistake, my answer is for 47 and not for 37 of course
no due to very bad ballistic
You'd think the gunners would want to be firing off as many rounds as they could rather than fiddling around screwing on magnesium caps..........
I would think that by the time these made it into German (possibly Finnish) then Russian hands that quite a few caps would have been lost. Knowing soldiers, I have no doubt they would have fired them without the caps. I do not know that these guns make the Finland to Russia move; however, one of my 47mm Mle 1935 AP rounds came from Russia. My contact there said quite a few came out of Finland. I believe the Germans sold S35 French tanks (and French 25mm antitank guns) to Finland.
Compleet 47 mm round with Original cap.
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greif
Well-Known Member
In the German handbook D 435/2a the matter of the ballistic caps is mentioned. On the first picture in the left low corner it says:
"Note1) In preparation to fire the gun caps in the container must be screwed on tightly by hand onto the projectiles. When those projectiles are to be repacked again, the caps must be unscrewed. In case of emergency the cartridge may be fired without a cap; cartridges with a cap though are more accurate".
On the second picture the container for the caps (Behälter für Hauben) is shown in front of ammobox next to a loose cap.
Attachments
What is the correct high explosive shell for the antitank gun? It is my understanding it was not widely distributed in the war. I noticed before that others on this site have placed the same HE shell on the antitank gun case that goes on the Mle 1935 case for the tank ammunition; I do not believe that is correct. I also note the German manual shows a German made HE shell with an AZ39 fuse, but not a French made HE shell. Why are there no copies of the French manual for this gun and its ammunition?
I also noticed that the German manual does not mention tracer rounds for the antitank gun with a green painted nose - only Mle 1936. I have seen mention here of Mle 1938 tracer AP rounds. Does anyone have a picture showing an AP round for the antitank gun with a tracer element?
The German manual H.Dv. 481/177 shows an AP with tracer made under German supervised production. I just noticed the "L'spur" or "Tracer" labeled on the bottom of one case in the drawing under "German Production". This can also be seen in the image provided by Greif above "Pzgr + L'spur = armor piercing tracer".
I also noticed that the German manual does not mention tracer rounds for the antitank gun with a green painted nose - only Mle 1936. I have seen mention here of Mle 1938 tracer AP rounds. Does anyone have a picture showing an AP round for the antitank gun with a tracer element?
The German manual H.Dv. 481/177 shows an AP with tracer made under German supervised production. I just noticed the "L'spur" or "Tracer" labeled on the bottom of one case in the drawing under "German Production". This can also be seen in the image provided by Greif above "Pzgr + L'spur = armor piercing tracer".
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Hello,
-HE shell m32/39 with a strange shape (and uncommon Gaba fuze) is quite rare in France. So I assume as you say this kind of shell was not widely distributed.
German documentation show a german made HE shell with Az39, but I've never seen this shell. I think German used small reserves of French HE shells and then made their own new shells.
Note about cases : HE model 32/39 coud be used with different guns. (case 1937, 380mm - case 1934, 139mm - case 1935, 193.5mm).
-At work I saw other German made shells (never found documentation) :
.AP model 1936 with tracer and two FES bands (I called it 4.7cm Pzgr.178 (f) l'spur Fes)
.AP model 1935 with tracer and two FES bands (I called it 4.7cm Pzgr.176 (f) l'spur Fes)
-Translation on French crate :
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Does anyone have a German or French document showing the M32 HE projectile placed on the 47mm antitank gun Mle 1937 case?
It also seems to me that there was no tracer version of the AP projectile produced by the French with a green/yellow nose called the Mle 1938 - as shown on an old thread on this site. Only the Germans produced a tracer version with a screw in tracer element No. 1.
It also seems to me that there was no tracer version of the AP projectile produced by the French with a green/yellow nose called the Mle 1938 - as shown on an old thread on this site. Only the Germans produced a tracer version with a screw in tracer element No. 1.
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Hi Steve,
Here are pictures of a German case for 4 cartridges of 47mm model 1937. The fragile caps in magnesium were contained in a tube fixed in the lid of the box.
The French box, in wood, is marked :"11 cartouches à projectile perforant de 47mm Mle 1936 avec les fausses ogives" = "11 cartridges with perforating projectile of 47mm Model 1936 with the false ogives"
In your photo, the 1 and 3 are 1936 models for Mle 1937 anti-tank gun (47x380r). The 2 and 4 are for the canon model 1935 (47x195r)
When the Germans re-used shells of French manufacture, they marked the shells like this:
And they have captured many in France! then used on the Russian front :
Here are pictures of a German case for 4 cartridges of 47mm model 1937. The fragile caps in magnesium were contained in a tube fixed in the lid of the box.
The French box, in wood, is marked :"11 cartouches à projectile perforant de 47mm Mle 1936 avec les fausses ogives" = "11 cartridges with perforating projectile of 47mm Model 1936 with the false ogives"
In your photo, the 1 and 3 are 1936 models for Mle 1937 anti-tank gun (47x380r). The 2 and 4 are for the canon model 1935 (47x195r)
When the Germans re-used shells of French manufacture, they marked the shells like this:
And they have captured many in France! then used on the Russian front :